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    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, December 14, 2018

    December 14, 2018

    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, December 14, 2018

    Daily Discussion, December 14, 2018

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 11:00 PM PST

    Please utilize this sticky thread for all general Bitcoin discussions! If you see posts on the front page or /r/Bitcoin/new which are better suited for this daily discussion thread, please help out by directing the OP to this thread instead. Thank you!

    If you don't get an answer to your question, you can try phrasing it differently or commenting again tomorrow.

    We have a couple chat rooms now!

    Please check the previous discussion thread for unanswered questions.

    submitted by /u/rBitcoinMod
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    With prices this low...

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 03:58 PM PST

    I know this isn't much, but this is my little way of promoting BTC when I'm at arcades. Game: Asteroids

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 04:39 AM PST

    Interview with Saifedean Ammous, Author of The Bitcoin Standard

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 10:21 PM PST

    BITCOIN WILL NEVER DIE - Long term holding you will be exceptionally rewarded - Asset Manager Insight -

    Posted: 14 Dec 2018 03:02 AM PST

    The crypto asset class has burst: game over? With Bitcoin touching 3,248$ recently, one may wonder if the near 90% crash experienced from the all-time highs last December has invalidated the case for crypto assets. A drawdown of this magnitude points to a bubble having obviously deflated, claim the long term sceptics. Current price adjustment would be, in their opinion, a reversion back to the true fundamentals of crypto assets, which should be valued "at best" as a commodity. But wait a minute. Bitcoin crashed 90% in 2011 and already died a 1st time. Except that it rallied 7287% afterwards until the next cyclical high is found. Bitcoin crashed 92% in 2014 and died a second time. Once again, it rallied dramatically and price increased 1500% until a new cyclical top is found in 2017. Those examples show that "the bubble has popped theory" might actually be only half-correct. Yes, a 90% drawdown points to short term excesses being corrected. Does it mean that the new (lower) price levels are reflective of the long term value of crypto assets? Probably not. Here is why. Crypto assets have a phenomenal and unusual volatility. Periods of massive gains are followed by periods of massive losses. This does not prevent the secular (upwards) trend to continue to develop. Those advances and set-backs are just magnified way beyond the volatility and drawdowns experienced on other traditional asset classes. As long-term investors in Crypto assets, we understand that the ongoing 2018 bear market has taken its toll on investors' psychology. We have been there in the past. A year later, the drop seems obvious, but was it really so obvious in 2017? Truth is… bubbles are easy to identify after the fact but nearly impossible to spot in advance. Those avoiding the previous cyclical crypto bear markets avoided the roller coaster but missed x100 gains. Sort term vs long term. And no free lunch: high expected returns do not come without a high volatility. Now on fundamentals. Average mining costs are estimated to be in the 3,500 / 7,000 range, depending on the miners' location and some other parameters. Transactions velocity has cooled down but absolute numbers remain robust. And major institutions are working to either use or invest in the technology, building the required infrastructure and custody offering needed to get the crypto asset class eligible to institutional investors. Blockchain is rightly considered as the next major innovation wave, similar in scope to what brought the internet in the mid-90's. There will be winner and there will be losers. Pets.com went bust. Amazon became the top US company by market cap. Overall, early adopters, market participants and investors willing to weather the storm were highly rewarded. So… game over? For short term investors not committed to the long term picture, this might be the case. For those having (unwisely) used leverage and being wiped out, the game is likely to be over. For long term investors like us, having smoothed the impact of the current bear market through a sound diversification of strategies, this is actually a very exciting time. A time of opportunities. Weak hands will sell, long term investors will remain committed. Because they know that bull markets are born out of bear markets. Because valuation gets compelling after a 90% decline. Because adoption keeps growing and institutions are getting in. But of course, only time will tell.

    submitted by /u/vmrey
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    03/Jan/2019 Bitcoin users on brink of second bailout for exchanges

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 02:02 PM PST

    The time has come for us to test what we have created. Trust in numbers yet we trust in exchanges, in people, in corporations.

    On the 3rd of January 2019, 10 years on, let us all have withdrawn our BTC to wallets we control. Let's see if it is all there, let us see who fails, let us see the network work.

    We lose nothing, we risk nothing, those companies and exchanges that cannot be trusted will be exposed.

    We must assert control, we must prove this is ours.

    We need a time to coordinate, 16:00 UTC 03/Jan/2019 is as good as any other. By this hour let us have concluded our transactions and hold our coins in our wallets.

    04/Jan/2019 we return to business as usual, with renewed confidence.

    submitted by /u/sotashi
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    I am sure everyone here at some point wondered why your parents didn't invest in Apple, or Microsoft or other companies when they were just a dollar or so a share? Ever wonder why your parents didn't buy some homes or land when it was cheap? Today I got my answer.

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 03:46 PM PST

    I was taking my dad early in the morning to an appointment he had. After he was done we went to breakfast. Out of nowhere I see a bitcoin ATM in the distance. We walked over and I got some, not a lot because it would upset him. He is against bitcoin even though he does not know what it is.

    My dad has been buying stocks for 50 years, and never once does he buy into anything early on. He is always coming late to the party, I think most people are like this.

    I can give you 100 reasons why you should not buy bitcoin, but those reasons will not be valid in 3 years from now given the rate of innovation and adaptation.

    One day my daughter will ask me why I didn't buy more when it was cheap, my answer will be because I didn't have more money to buy, not because I thought its going nowhere.

    submitted by /u/jchang23
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    [Adoption] Bitcoin Taxi as seen in Barcelona, Spain

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 03:59 PM PST

    Tutorial to setup a Bitcoin Lightning Node. It’s easy enough for non tech-savvy people.

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 04:29 PM PST

    Shakepay announces new feature to turn your spare change from purchases into BTC

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 07:31 AM PST

    Watching roger and craig fight it out. You gotta thank the universe you stuck with bitcoin.

    Posted: 14 Dec 2018 01:16 AM PST

    Let's face it Bitcoin cash failed. There is more derision and bitterness in that space now than a year ago. The two chains abc and sv are low grade networks dominated by the personalities of Roger (who happily vouched for Mt gox) and Craig who is playing a very week con.

    On top of that both chains are dominated by what can only be described as mining cartels. And one such cartel holds over 1million tokens of both chains. I don't think it's possible for the market to absorb those coins without pushing down massively. It's a bigger smoking gun than a potential tether scandal.

    submitted by /u/Jyontaitaa
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    Allianz Asks to Ban Crypto After Calling Bitcoin a 'Buy' Under $5K - Bitcoinist.com

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 09:39 PM PST

    Internet won't work - prediction from 1995 :) Hello bitcoin

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 05:46 AM PST

    When you've been teaching people about Bitcoin + Lightning all day then head to a random music venue expecting some non-crypto related downtime (Brighton, UK) :D

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 03:44 PM PST

    'Bitcoin is highly Undervalued, should be priced between $13,800 and $14,800' - Says Tom Lee

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 11:02 AM PST

    Bitcoin Q&A: Smart contracts, sidechains, and the Lightning Network

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 04:54 PM PST

    Tax Tip for Investors: Make use of coins at a loss by tax loss harvesting or doing a wash sale. Good instructions in this post.

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 03:27 PM PST

    Lessons in HODL

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 06:59 PM PST

    Fixed friends car. Paid me in bitcoin. Sorta. :D

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 01:28 PM PST

    Interesting Bitcoin ATM ad found on YouTube. How do you think what they try to promote?

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 07:01 AM PST

    A thread on how I turned $32,000 into $1.2m and back to pretty much zero (once taxes are paid) - Peter McCormack on Twitter

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 07:49 AM PST

    Sunny DeCree Lightning Network Demo - Get past Sunnys Swedish accent and watch the whole thing!

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 09:18 PM PST

    Can I start a LN node with a pruned Bitcoin node?

    Posted: 14 Dec 2018 03:46 AM PST

    I don't think I have enough drive space for a full node...

    submitted by /u/Sherlockcoin
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    Decouple bitcoin from fiat and participate in closed crypto economic networks.

    Posted: 13 Dec 2018 01:06 PM PST

    Ok. I realize the following concept is unrealistic from a basic economic perspective for the vast majority of potential BTC adopters. However, I do believe it's a possible (likely slow) pathway to eventual mass adoption and I'd like to have a discussion about closed crypto economies. As someone who believes in the promise of cryptocurrency to ultimately shift the power of financial sovereignty away from global institutions and nation states to individuals, I have faith that the very unique combination of characteristics offered by Bitcoin (and other crypto to varying degrees) will eventually win out over fiat, although that could take a very long time.

    Firstly, fiat value volatility is perhaps the greatest impediment to adoption presently. Merchants and consumers will continue to value things in terms of fiat for a long time to come regardless of which currency (fiat or crypto) they accept. It's necessary for most to measure transaction value in fiat terms because both parties in a transaction have a very real need to convert back and fourth between currencies. Since this is the case, the incentive for Alice to buy BTC with fiat for a transaction with Bob who simply intends to convert the BTC back to fiat is severely lacking in most cases. It's just unnecessary and overly complicates the transaction. The obvious question for both parties is, why bother? The value of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency must be decoupled from fiat value. Again, I realize how unrealistic this is in today's economy. But we need things, however minor or less significant, to be priced strictly in terms of crypto.

    Secondly, in order to price things in crypto and disregarding any fiat value, you obviously have to place a value on the crypto itself, meaning what it's worth to you in terms of crypto buying power. You have to simply want to hold and use crypto for it's own sake. You need a network of vendor/consumers who are willing to transact with one another in a closed crypto economy without converting to fiat.

    Third, although this is unrealistic for 99.9% of people to convert all their financial activity to a crypto economy, I do think it's entirely possible to participate in a closed crypto economy as a secondary, fully separate financial operation. In other words, you'd simultaneously participate in two economies. Use crypto for crypto and fiat for fiat.

    I'm sure there are lots of people who are using crypto this way now, just not enough. I'd like to see a grass roots movement toward decoupled crypto economies. I personally would like to establish a small business, side hustle if you will, selling a product or service for Bitcoin and possibly a few alts. A business that, for now, isn't my main source of income and can be operated to fit reasonably within my otherwise fiat based lifestyle. Products or services should be priced without regard for fiat value, and prices adjusted infrequently and only in response to the purchasing power of the crypto itself within my crypto economic network. This would necessarily begin with many micro crypto economic networks, such as myself, my barber, the tavern I go to, my auto mechanic, and a few other enthusiasts who regularly do transact with one another in a small community. Eventually and hopefully enough other people would try the same thing. Perhaps various small networks of vendor/consumers would gradually grow and connect with one another, eventually leading to mass adoption over the long term.

    Does anyone here operate this way now? How could such a movement be promoted? People have to stop caring how much bitcoin is worth (in fiat terms). In the end it really doesn't matter. Start caring what you can purchase with crypto directly. Offer your time, services, products priced in crypto not because of how much fiat that crypto is worth, but because of the purchasing power the crypto has in your own crypto economic network.

    submitted by /u/GradyWilson
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