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    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, October 13, 2021

    October 13, 2021

    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, October 13, 2021

    Daily Discussion, October 13, 2021

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 10:09 PM PDT

    Please utilize this sticky thread for all general Bitcoin discussions! If you see posts on the front page or /r/Bitcoin/new which are better suited for this daily discussion thread, please help out by directing the OP to this thread instead. Thank you!

    If you don't get an answer to your question, you can try phrasing it differently or commenting again tomorrow.

    Join us in the r/Bitcoin Chatroom!

    Please check the previous discussion thread for unanswered questions.

    submitted by /u/rBitcoinMod
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    This was definitely a first for everyone involved. Thanks Suzuki El Salvador.

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 03:11 PM PDT

    The next bitcoin halving will be in approximately 909 days. Keep on stacking my friends while bitcoin is cheap.

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 08:44 PM PDT

    Venezuelan international airport to accept Bitcoin payments - Report

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 12:55 AM PDT

    Just went to my local cash machine to take out some cash and look what I noticed from the corner of my eye

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 02:46 PM PDT

    Home Invaders steal $100,000 worth of Bitcoin. Don't tell anyone about your BTC. Identify theft, home invasion and kidnap can be insured against.

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 08:26 PM PDT

    "Bitcoin mining will "strengthen" US energy grid." - U.S. Senator

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 05:49 AM PDT

    Edward Snowden: Governments will destroy citizens’ savings with CBDCs

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 03:34 PM PDT

    A new mega Bitcoin mining farm to be built in Argentina

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 08:31 PM PDT

    For the future ����

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 01:25 PM PDT

    Russia doesn’t plan to ban crypto outrightly like China, says deputy finance minister

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 12:09 AM PDT

    Bitcoin Mining Is Reshaping the Energy Sector and No One Is Talking About It

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 04:02 PM PDT

    US becomes world's largest bitcoin miner after China crackdown

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 04:56 AM PDT

    IMF warns cryptocurrencies may threaten financial stability without regulation

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 07:51 AM PDT

    US overtakes China as biggest bitcoin mining hub after Beijing ban

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 05:07 AM PDT

    Google Pay launches Bitcoin partnership with Bakkt. The announcement could promise a new era of mass adoption with Bakkt users able to use virtual Visa Debit cards with the Google Pay service.

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 02:21 PM PDT

    Switzerland: Crypto Think Tank Launches Initiative to Add Bitcoin (BTC) in Federal Constitution

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 10:01 AM PDT

    Advice from the fam

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 01:18 PM PDT

    I'm 19 yo, and after a very loong time i decided to get into bitcoin. i wanted to invest about 1500$ (i know its not a lot, but im a fkn 19yo living with my parents im not rich yet :) ),now the question is: is coinbase a good provider to start buying and holding "till i die"?

    submitted by /u/KONGURlNN
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    Australia is going to get its first crypto ETF from Betashare

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 09:41 PM PDT

    Betashare Australia is launching the Crypto Innovators ETF that invests in more than 30 crypto companies, including coinbase, microstrategy and Riot.

    submitted by /u/ahauyeung
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    The Lightning Network: The Most Efficient Payment System In The World

    Posted: 12 Oct 2021 08:11 PM PDT

    Data shows US becomes the largest Bitcoin mining market

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 04:58 AM PDT

    Mental exercise and UTXO privacy question

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 02:41 AM PDT

    It's the year 2047. The IRS has a brand new Quantum Computer and it's starting to mess around with it. The Bitcoin community saw this coming and implemented a quantum resistant cryptography address type a while ago. You moved all your funds to this new type of address, they are SAFU. You know your stuff, so instead of batch sending all your UTXOs to a new address type, you waited for the record low 30sat/vbyte fees (we haven't seen 1sat/vbyte since the year 2036 or so...) to make your transactions UTXO by UTXO, each to a different address so you don't link them all to the same owner. You also did it in different times around the clock to break any timezone analysis and used different fees to break any type of possible link between old and new addresses, other than "the owner of the old UTXO is highly likely the owner of the new UTXO" because you transferred 100% of the funds.

    ​

    Good. You are smart. However, you start to wonder. Your past self wasn't as privacy oriented, and you likely made some mistakes along the way - you've been holding these coins since the year 2023 after all. You were careful enough to mix the coins through the Samousabi implementation, after Samourai and Wasabi became friends in the year 2022 and joined forces to develop the ultimate mixer. You kept your mixed coins in separate UTXOs, but you remember that all these UTXOs belong to the same wallet, meaning you have one seed, one passphrase, and they are allocated to derivation paths M/84'/0'/0'/0/0, M/84'/0'/0'/0/1, M/84'/0'/0'/0/2... or whatever, the main point being they can be derived with the same master private key. You also remember that you purchased a bitrefuel card to pay for Spmusicfy Premium once, and that the email account is linked to your meatspace self in various KYC services (water, electricity, you name it). Important: the UTXO you used to pay for this has nothing to do with the mixed ones, they were never together and never will be, but they belong to the same wallet. If the mixed coins are in M/84'/0'/0'/0/0-1000, the UTXO used to pay for this was the 1001. Completely different address and history.

    ​

    Now, the big question. The IRS can't prove you own coins now, because we're quantum resistant. They can't seize the funds either. However, they can know everything inside bitrefuel (because NSA and tinfoil hat) so they can link your meatspace self to that one payment, meaning they can link you to a public address. With their QC, they can bruteforce-get the master private key for that address, from which it is trivial to derive all the public addresses that share that private key. Therefore, they can prove you owned X bitcoin at certain given time (all the mixed coins in separate UTXOs), and checking their records they can see you never reported owning them (it became mandatory in the year 2040). Even more, they can link you to the UTXOs in the quantum safe format (because of one by one 100% UTXO transfer) and know you currently own X bitcoin, and that all of these "mixed", "independent" and "unrelated" quantum safe bitcoin are indee related and are yours.

    ​

    Therefore,

    TLDR:

    1) Is it safer (privacy-wise) to keep your UTXOs not only separate within the same wallet, but belonging to different wallets so in a QC future they won't be linked? The moment you KYC one of the UTXOs, would you be KYCing them all?

    2) Would having the UTXOs under one seed and different passphrases mitigate this issue? I guess all UTXOs under that same master private key would be revealed, but I am not positive a QC could derive the seed and the passphrase from the master private key, to then bruteforce the seed with different passphrases looking for more used TXOs that have been

    3) Would "hiding" UTXOs in non-trivial derivation paths mitigate this? Say, instead of M/84'/0'/0'/0/212, using M/84'/0'/0'/0/212568. How much of a difference would that make in a QC space?

    ​

    Thanks! =)

    submitted by /u/Jack1602
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    Let's bring down blockchain.com scammers

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 03:39 AM PDT

    I do not understand how it is possible that blockchain.com scammers have been getting it their way for so long without any consequences.

    Few days ago u/ArchRoptor got scammed

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/q6ko1p/my_blockchain_wallet_got_hacked/

    And there is a lot more people

    https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/search?q=blockchain+stolen&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on

    That name they are using is obviously pretty related to Bitcoin and it is understandable many people may fall to the scam. I think this does not look good on us bitcoiners

    I think we should raise some BTC to get legal advice on how to take that site down. Is there any law expert around who can expand on whether it is possible to bring down such a scammish site?

    submitted by /u/don_verilog
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    How does Bitcoin's energy usage scale?

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 12:50 AM PDT

    A frequent point of criticism is the high energy usage that comes with Bitcoin mining. Advocates of Bitcoin point out that the existing banking system also uses a lot of energy and that Bitcoin mining is / could be powered by renewables. However they fail to answer the most basic question which is implied by the original criticism: How does the energy usage scale as a function of

    the number of transactions,

    the value of a Bitcoin,

    the total amount of Bitcoin mined so far,

    the share of Bitcoin transactions of all financial transactions,

    the total amount of power produced in the world,

    the world economy as a whole?

    Or in other words: How much energy will we need to consume if the whole world runs on Bitcoin and layer-2 technologies are widespread?

    I think these questions are important to see if that angle of attack of bitcoin bears any merit at all.

    submitted by /u/I_bims_der_Jens
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    This is the true scale of China’s bitcoin exodus

    Posted: 13 Oct 2021 04:33 AM PDT
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