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    Ethereum Can we get real about Optimism, please?

    March 28, 2021

    Ethereum Can we get real about Optimism, please?

    Can we get real about Optimism, please?

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 10:37 AM PDT

    Hear me out. Just over a month ago, Optimism blogged that they hired all this new talent and that they would be launching mainnet instead of the public testnet this march.

    https://medium.com/ethereum-optimism/dope-hires-moar-mainnet-in-march-174fa8966361

    Also, back in September, Optimism blogged their roadmap and informed that synthetix, uniswap, and chainlink would be integrated onto the testnet so they would be ready to go when mainnet was, stating "we will be preparing some of our other early adopters for testnet integrations so that they are ready to deploy once the full testnet is running."

    https://medium.com/ethereum-optimism/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-c390a05bbcb8

    Then we learn the other day that Optimism is delayed. Interestingly, when recently asked on Discord why Optimism needed to wait until they (synthetix, uniswap, chainlink) were ready, Jinglan said:

    "We especially want things like token bridges, infrastructure providers, block explorers, multisigs, wallets, etc. to be ready for launch so people can use L2 as safely as possible . . . [i]n order for a project to upgrade safely, we need to integrate a multisig prior to launch. Other things in this category include oracles, indexers, etc."

    Just wow. And chainlink hasn't deployed anything yet?! Notably, Chainlink already has price feeds on xDai and their oracles are ready as well (with documentation). But were told Chainlink was an "integration partner, but for the last 6 months they've done basically nothing? No price feeds. Not even oracles? Amazing.

    Soooo just barely a month ago, Jinglan and company didn't have any idea that mainnet wouldn't be ready in March? That Chainlink, an integration partner doesn't even have price feeds, but that mainnet would be ready in March? They didn't even have block explorers or wallets ready? Lol. Smh.

    I understand that projects get delayed, but this is pretty alarming. How can we possibly trust or rely on anything Optimism says at this rate? This whole situation is unfortunate and unacceptable at this point. It's no wonder xDai and polygon are eating into Ethereum's market share. Jinglan, can you get it together please?

    P.S. I love ETH and have been hodling since 2017. I'm just pissed at the lack of urgency surrounding L2 solutions and and how this is panning out.

    EDIT: downvote me all you want, still doesn't change the facts of the matter. Jinglan said it, not me.

    EDIT 2: I understand my interpretation of events surrounding optimism may be incorrect. I'm not afraid to be corrected or learn from those who know more than I do. That's why I submitted this post for you to critique. Pardon me in advance for having a thought.

    submitted by /u/boot_knocker_
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    A brain dump on PoS vs PoW arguments

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 08:30 AM PDT

    I just listened to the ultrasound money podcast by Justin Drake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWqhn1hXvVc) and the critique by ck_snarks ( http://povcryptopod.btc.libsynpro.com/debating-bitcoin-security-and-ultra-sound-money ). I found myself agreeing with Justin and disagreeing with the critique on most points, my two main disagreements with Justin being that (i) his concrete estimates on the cost to attack BTC really were a bit low, and (ii) the "Bitcoin is a battery" meme is dumb and we should let/help it die (see this excellent parody from deadalnix), though to his credit Justin did use the analogy in a different way. I also find that some of my disagreements with the critique are disagreements with deeper points that get brought up by the pro-PoW side regularly.

    It really is relative security, and not absolute security, that matters

    One criticism that was made to Justin's claim that the long-run economics of fixed-supply PoW are not good is that while the BTC-denominated block reward has been going down, the USD-denominated block reward has been going up, and the latter is what matters because it determines the actual level of security. This is wrong. The reason why it is wrong is that the security needs of a thing have to be proportional to the size of that thing, because as a thing gets bigger, its enemies become bigger and more well-motivated. If BTC were 100x as big as it is today, the value from destroying it would be 100x higher, and the kinds of actors that would want to care about destroying it would be much bigger and scarier. This is also why countries of all sizes have roughly similarly sized militaries as a percentage of GDP. Hence, cost of attack divided by market cap really is the correct statistic to measure, and in the long run issuance-free PoW really does look not that good.

    Models really are good at seeing the long-term big picture here

    I won't go into this in too much detail; instead I will link my own model from November: https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/11/06/pos2020.html

    This gives the deep fundamental reasons why we should generally expect PoS to have a much higher security/cost ratio than PoW, which are independent of the specifics of any single algorithm or era. It's better to focus on that than to hinge the entire argument on (necessarily rough and low-information) calculations made with specific assumptions about manufacturers.

    "Even if they can attack, why would they? It's not in their interests" is a bad argument

    One common argument that gets made to assuage fears of a miner or pool getting 51% hashpower is: even if they do, why would they attack? That would destroy the golden goose that lays their eggs; it's not in their interests. But in reality, we cannot assume this; not only does it assume rationality, it assumes lack of outside incentives. The whole point of having high levels of security is to protect against attackers with outside incentives to break the chain. This is why my own approach to thinking about PoS security is "if they have $X billion, how many times can they break the chain before all their money gets slashed?". It's not about assuming rationality; it's only assuming limits on bad actors' economic resources.

    "Trust a single actor because they have economic incentives" is a security model fit for centralized systems, not for blockchains.

    Once you can do one type of 51% attack on a PoW chain, you really can do them all

    A point made near the end of the critique podcast was that it's not correct to think of 51% attacks as being a single type of thing, because different kinds of attacks are different: censoring or reverting hours of activity requires hours of work, but censoring or reverting months of activity requires months of work, which is hundreds of times more. Once again, I disagree, and I actually think the approach of treating "51% attack capability" as a single thing is correct. This is because the bulk of the cost of an attack is hardware costs (last time I tried to estimate this, it was 2/3 hardware, 1/3 electricity). Hence, once you have the capability to attack for even a day, you're most of the way there to attacking as many times as you want until the community gives up and changes the PoW algo (or, better yet, moves to PoS).

    The only exception I might grant is that one could hack into or shut down mining pools for a short period of time, but doing this for longer than a few hours is harder because the legitimate pool operators could respond, but it's worth remembering that the numbers of "$5 (or 10) billion to attack BTC" were already based on the attacker not being able to do this and having to get the hardware the hard way.

    Miners contribute to non-greenness even if they are green

    Energy is a semi-fungible market. Even if all BTC miners in the world were super-virtuous and made sure to only use very clean energy, the net effect of such a change would be that the cost of green energy for everyone else would go up (this is basic supply/demand mechanics) while the cost of non-green energy for everyone else would remain unchanged. Hence, the other businesses that care about the environment the least would use less green energy and more non-green energy.

    Additionally, the environment is not the only negative externality; there are plenty of cases of mining farms using subsidized electricity (eg. see this one that got caught), so their use of electricity also adds a negative externality to local fiscal budgets.

    Monetary premium really is a meme, and not "the basic properties of reality manifesting themselves"

    An argument in the critique podcast has David arguing that monetary premium of an asset is a Schelling point (aka meme, aka legitimacy) that arises from implicit social coordination. CK says that this is false, and it's the inherent properties of the asset that make it win out.

    I'm once again siding with David here; the world really does run on social coordination and memes, and cryptocurrency is arguably even entrenching that, not somehow getting away from it. The proof of this is simple: compare Bitcoin and any of the PoW fork coins that came after it. The only difference between them is that Bitcoin came first - a factor which has zero influence on its technical properties, but a lot of influence on meme value. One could argue that Bitcoin also has higher hashpower, but this is missing the fact that hashpower is itself caused by monetary premium. If some other PoW asset had a higher value and block reward tomorrow, the hashpower of the chain maintaining that asset would also be higher. Also, I just doubt that most people really understand or care about the difference between 15 exahashes and 150 exahashes.

    What the pro-PoW arguments get right

    Perhaps the best argument that was made or alluded to is that the physical hardware-driven nature of it adds friction even to very well-capitalized attackers: you need to wait a year for the hardware to get manufactured, the process necessarily involves many people, and there's a high risk that it gets detected while you're doing it. This is a genuine advantage of PoW. That said, it also has its flipsides: as Justin said in his podcast, it's very hard to mine at significant scales without being caught, whereas PoS is much more censorship-resistant.

    Arguments about PoW as a distribution model are also fair and important; plenty of pure-PoS coins end up launching with very concentrated token supplies. That said, as Justin and others have mentioned Ethereum too benefits from that due to its ~6 years of mining, even though it is now switching to PoS.

    submitted by /u/vbuterin
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    Read ASAP!

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 12:06 PM PDT

    NFTs on SNL

    Posted: 27 Mar 2021 10:34 PM PDT

    Let's help our Ethereum community members! You can support just by reading the post

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 12:27 PM PDT

    Disclaimer: I don't want to spread false hope in this post saying that prices will surge or something, I just want to break the Bitcoin dominance in our market and make Alts that have good projects take that chunk of bitcoin share

    In the r\cryptocurrency subreddit with about two million members, anyone who talks about the advantages of using Ethereum and smart contracts gets downvoted, snobbed, and attacked by bitcoin army.

    Every newbie that joins the cryptocurrency world goes directly to that subreddit as it's the easiest by name. Every newbie gets influenced to invest only in bitcoin for most of his portafolio. Treating it like gold even though it's really outdated.

    So in this post my aim is to change the bitcoin dominance in the cryptocurrency and ensure that all our community here can access the most famous subreddit for cryptocurrency and defend our beloved Ethereum with facts not by shilling it. We can help each other by upvoting our comments here, because r\cryptocurrency subreddit has comment karma points requirements otherwise member cannot comment nor post! (Being invisible)

    Let's do it! together we cannnnn!!!

    Edit: Show your support to Ethereum by upvoting all comments below not my post!

    submitted by /u/StudentForAllMyLife
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    Will My Ethereum become Ethereum 2

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 02:37 PM PDT

    So I keep my eth in a software wallet and am wondering if when eth becomes eth2 will I have to transfer out and convert or will eth automaticity become eth2

    submitted by /u/paigelynn69
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    ETH2 March Development Update — Prysmatic Labs

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 08:18 AM PDT

    What do you think of Uniswap V3's copyright restrictions?

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 08:21 AM PDT

    Best Way/Strategy to Mint Art NFTs for Aspiring Artists

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 02:04 PM PDT

    Hey guys, we have talented artists in our team and were thinking of leveraging off the social clout of our luxury brand and minting different kind of art related NFTs, including crypto-related, horology related, and more general art related.

    Is there a particular NFT platform we should focus on for aspiring artists why are not yet famous or well-known?

    Also, is it a generally a better idea once physical artwork is concerned to turn it into a digital format and destroy the physical work or bundle the NFT and the physical work together?

    We've been investing in crypto for the last 4-5 years, but are not experts in the NFT space, so I apologize for the newbie questions.

    submitted by /u/crmjewelers
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    Ethereum: The F-Word -- Benjamin Cowen

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 07:19 PM PDT

    Simple ethereum question - unlimited supply?

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 07:51 AM PDT

    Hello there. I tried to post this in the cryptocurrency subreddit but didn't have the required comment karma.

    I understand that ethereum has an unlimited supply, unlike bitcoin or cardano, that is created at an ever decreasing rate. However, if the amount of ethereum is always increasing, even with mass adoption, won't it's worth eventually drop as supply outpaces demand? Isn't it more of a sure bet to invest in coins with limited supply?

    I'm not knocking ethereum. I think it is an amazing technology and I am excited about ethereum 2.0 and the improvement of smart contracts. I just want to understand how the unlimited cap plays into price when compared to other coins.

    submitted by /u/baabaablacksheep4
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    EasyfiNetwork is the first-ever Layer-2 lending protocol to list exclusive money markets for #MATIC - Supply and Borrow Matic Now!!!

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 08:42 AM PDT

    Building a way to crowdsource yield farming opportunities

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 07:35 PM PDT

    Hi everyone, I been yield farming since defi summer and had the issue of discovering good yield farming opportunities

    ​

    I recently built beaverfi.com which is a newsletter that shares the latest defi/airdrop/farming opportunities along with deeper dives into projects to evaluate their trustworthiness and other

    ​

    I'm trying to figure out a way to incentivize people to share new opportunities as well, right now in the newsletter I'm basically sharing things that I've found and tested out.

    ​

    Was wondering if anyone might have any thoughts or suggestions on what would be ways to incentivize people to share?

    submitted by /u/1Step_At_ATime
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    With exchanges have lowest fees

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 04:13 PM PDT

    Hello, i am regularly buying eth in binance and when i have some amount i sent it to my trezor. I think binance isnt best option cause it cost me 0.008 eth each time i sent eth to my wallet. Wich exchange have lower fees for that. Thanks

    submitted by /u/Special_Geologist_80
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    Salvador Dali: Satoshi's White Paper - an alternative interpretation of the Dalinean Prophecy

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 11:24 AM PDT

    Thoughts on Aztec and the Noir proof language?

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 11:33 AM PDT

    Incorporating Ethereum into everyday life

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 03:13 AM PDT

    What are ways to build Ethereum into your day-to-day life?

    More than just investing fiat, but I'm curious to hear of ways/examples of Ethereum can be used for banking/gaming/other personal tasks.

    submitted by /u/JurysOut
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    New to Ethereum soon (wallet, staking etc)

    Posted: 28 Mar 2021 02:53 AM PDT

    Hi all. Just getting into Ethereum once my ledger x arrives. Please be patient with any stupid question of mine as I'm genuinely trying to learn.

    I know these dumb questions might annoy some so I do apologise in advance.

    I have a ledger wallet arriving in 1.5 weeks time and will be getting some Ethereum using Kraken. I won't be able to stake independently unfortunately as 32 ETH is out of budget, as is 16 which is a soon to be possibility with some pools.

    I'd love to keep the eth with kraken and stake there but all it takes is 1 bad breach into kraken and you're in danger, hence the ledger x purchase.

    Now I know with Ada you can move it to the ledger x, then to yoroi and stake that way, being secure.

    What's the best option for someone like me. Who will be getting ethereum soon. Do I get the eth through kraken and stake there? Or do I just throw it into my ledger x and hodl with no staking.

    There's probably an easy and obvious answer but my ignorant/new mind to this can't figure it out

    submitted by /u/MK19888
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    What's the difference between attestation and finality?

    Posted: 27 Mar 2021 10:00 PM PDT

    When describing attestation, the ethereum.org website says:

    "If a validator isn't chosen to propose a new shard block, they'll have to attest to another validator's proposal and confirm that everything looks as it should. It's the attestation that is recorded in the beacon chain, rather than the transaction itself.

    At least 128 validators are required to attest to each shard block – this is known as a "committee"."

    When describing finality it says:

    "In distributed networks, a transaction has "finality" when it's part of a block that can't change.

    To do this in proof-of-stake, Casper, a finality protocol, gets validators to agree on the state of a block at certain checkpoints. So long as 2/3 of the validators agree, the block is finalised. Validators will lose their entire stake if they try and revert this later on via a 51% attack."

    source: https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/consensus-mechanisms/pos/

    What is the difference between the two? Is it that attestation is done on the shard chain level (attesting to a shard block) and that finality is done at the global block level, coordinated by the beacon chain?

    submitted by /u/geoffbezos
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