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    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, November 15, 2020

    November 15, 2020

    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, November 15, 2020

    Daily Discussion, November 15, 2020

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 11:00 PM PST

    Please utilize this sticky thread for all general Bitcoin discussions! If you see posts on the front page or /r/Bitcoin/new which are better suited for this daily discussion thread, please help out by directing the OP to this thread instead. Thank you!

    If you don't get an answer to your question, you can try phrasing it differently or commenting again tomorrow.

    Join us in the r/Bitcoin Chatroom!

    Please check the previous discussion thread for unanswered questions.

    submitted by /u/rBitcoinMod
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    None of my 15 aunts or uncles have told me to buy bitcoin yet, I think we are still under the radar gents...

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 06:51 PM PST

    To the moon!

    submitted by /u/Devildog0491
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    Grayscale Increases Holdings another 300m

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 03:00 PM PST

    Fidelity, The Trillion-Dollar Asset Giant addresses BITCOIN CRITICISMS

    Posted: 15 Nov 2020 01:31 AM PST

    11/13/2020
    In this piece, we review and respond to criticisms and misconceptions that continue to come up in our conversations. The criticisms outlined below have been addressed many times over, but we wanted to share an updated response given the increase in attention on Bitcoin.

    Specifically:

    1. Bitcoin is too volatile to be a store of value.
    2. Bitcoin has failed as a means of payment.
    3. Bitcoin is wasteful.
    4. Bitcoin is used for illicit activity.
    5. Bitcoin is not backed by anything.
    6. Bitcoin will be replaced by a competitor.

    https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/articles/addressing-bitcoin-criticisms?ccmedia=owned&amp%3Bccchannel=social&amp%3Bcccampaign=bitcoin_myth_blog&amp%3Bcctactics=Twitterr&ccsource=linkedin_share

    *not working for Fidelity, just wanted to share!

    submitted by /u/Limburg3rt
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    Do you realise that 10.6% of Bitcoin's entire supply is held by top five centralized exchanges? And how many Bitcoins have been lost to scams, fraud, and forgetting private keys? Stop putting your BTC on exchanges people

    Posted: 15 Nov 2020 02:49 AM PST

    How it all started!

    Posted: 15 Nov 2020 12:36 AM PST

    Why is Bitcoin worth anything?

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 06:54 PM PST

    Why is Bitcoin worth anything?

    Let's start by comparing Bitcoin to United States Dollar and Gold.

    Bitcoin, US Dollars and Gold all have value because other people believe that they do. They have no objective value and are all social constructs.

    Bitcoin, USD, and Gold. Why are they worth something? For three mains reasons.

    1. Store of value is the function of an asset that can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved
    2. Medium of ExchangeA medium of exchange is an intermediary instrument or system used to facilitate the sale, purchase, or trade of goods between parties.
    3. Unit of AccountThe value of something is measured in a specific currency. This allows different things to be compared against each other; for example, goods, services, assets, liabilities, labor, income, expenses

    We do all need some currency to store value, unit of account, and as a medium of exchange, unless we want to go back to bartering!

    Bartering

    Although bartering might be a lot of fun for a day, it would surely make everything a lot less efficient!

    USD, Gold and Bitcoin - Store of Value, Unit of Account and Medium of Exchange

    - United States Dollar. The US Dollar is used as a medium of exchange, store of value and unit of account.

    The united states dollar does not have a limited supply. More money can be printed and created by the federal reserve and also by banks when they create loans.

    Creating Money

    As more is created it might mean that the value goes down (inflation) and this might mean that over the long term it might not be a great store of value, compared to gold, or bitcoin, and there is usually a relationship between inflation, uncertainty and the rising value of alternatives as a store of value.

    Gold - Gold has previously been used as a medium of exchange in the form of gold coins but it is no longer used as a medium of exchange or unit of account. The primary purpose of gold is as a store of value. With a limited supply, gold can act as a store of value and can protect against inflation.

    Additional gold can only be found by mining (and there is a limit to how much gold can be mined from this planet). It can also be created from other elements but the process requires a nuclear reaction and it's currently not profitable to do that.

    While gold is limited on earth, it is possible that it can be found abundantly in space. Nasa is targeting a golden asteroid in 2022 that can have enough gold everyone on earth can a billionaire (or more likely to turn the gold industry into chaos) NASA and SpaceX explore asteroid for gold and other metals.

    It might be some time before space mining is realised but the prospect of finding abundant gold outside this planet in the future is a very real possibility

    ​

    Gold Asteroid

    BITCOIN Bitcoin can be used as a medium of exchange and a store of value

    As a medium of exchange, Bitcoin - can be exchanged digitally, internationally, and anonymously and securely. One challenge to bitcoins as a medium of exchange is the volatility and setting up the infrastructure - I don't come across many places where I can use bitcoin in my life or know of anyone who is buying or selling things with bitcoin every day.

    I also read that there are some technical challenges to using bitcoin as a medium of exchange exchange. It isn't that efficient, is slow and costly.

    The volatility of Bitcoin is also why it is challenging as a unit of account and as an effective store of value.

    Bitcoin does have a limited supply. There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. However, cryptocurrencies don't have a limited supply. It is possible to create an infinite number of cryptocurrencies just like Bitcoin. Just like copying and pasting the code - For example, Bitcoin 2, 3 could be made etc.,. As of today there are 6,955 different cryptocurrencies.

    What Bitcoin has that other cryptocurrencies doesn't, as the first mover, is a certain infrastructure and community. But how valuable is that? Every dead currency has also had infrastructure and a community. Myspace had a pretty thriving community before Facebook existed. It is possible another, or many other superior cryptocurrencies could be created and replace bitcoin.

    ​

    Bitcoin Vs Gold Vs USD

    Gold - Store of Value (with advantages)

    Gold, has advantages compared to United States Dollar and Bitcoin as a store of value, gold has by far the longest history of the three and was recognised as far back as the ancient Egyptians as an object of beauty - representing a sungod but it was first used as a currency in 700 B.C.

    Gold is deeply embedded into our cultural psychology and we can say that it does have some value of beauty that has survived throughout different cultures in our history and exists to this day which shouldn't be underestimated.

    Another advantage of gold is that it also has limited supply unlike the USD.

    ​

    Bitcoin - Store of Value & Medium of Exchange (with advantages)

    Compared to the US Dollar it has advantages as a medium of exchange that also has a store of value (that has a limited supply unlike the United States Dollar).

    Bitcoin serves a purpose as a store of value just like gold. The advantage compared to gold is that it can be used as both a store of value and a a medium of exchange (international, fast, anonymous money transfers). However it is quite new and it is remains to be seen how important this is as it is mostly used as a store of value now.

    There are many similarities between people buying Bitcoin and Gold as a store of value but also differences.

    One difference is that people are buying Bitcoin because they think it will increase in price in the future, and so it might be a better store of value compared to gold because it will increase in value and become more valuable (10x or 20x).

    Traditionally, gold has been a "safer" store of value, with a lower risk and more stable outcome.

    Bitcoin might also be seen as a more secure or easier way to store value than gold. It can be anonymous and electronic.

    Bitcoin also has disadvantages as a store of value. It doesn't have as reliable a history as gold. It therefore might be safer to invest in gold.

    ​

    United States Dollar (medium of exchange with advantages and disadvantages, unit of account, and store of value) (with disadvantages)

    The united states dollar main advantage is as a medium of exchange and unit of account. Bitcoin is not great as a medium of exchange and it is still easier in many circumstances to use US Dollar compared to bitcoin.

    But Bitcoin does have some advantages as a medium of exchange (international, fast, anonymous money transfers), but it doesn't seem possible that it will ever replace the USD as a medium of exchange.

    For USD, as a store of value, with no limit on the supply, it is almost certain that as more is created USD becomes less valuable over time.

    ​

    Why bitcoin is worth anything is the same reason that gold and united states dollars are worth anything - because we believe it is.

    Fiat currencies do have disadvantages as a store of value and a medium of exchange. Gold can only serve as a store of value, while bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies) can serve as a store of value and medium of exchange.

    Personally I think we don't fully have one currency that fully works globally as both a medium of exchange AND store of value AND unit of account. So there is space for something new and better that may or may not be based off blockchain technology.

    Currencies have come and gone in the past, and it's totally possible that a new superior digital currency could be created in the future to replace them all.

    However, exactly how much they're worth and if they're worth anything depends entirely on how we use them and on what we all think they're worth.

    ​

    What do you think? Appreciate your thoughts and feedback

    ​

    submitted by /u/Vegetable-Ad-4005
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    New Senator, Cynthia Lummis want to make Bitcoin part of the National Conversation - Nov 13th 2020

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 07:59 AM PST

    Denying BTC and its significance is the same as thinking the internet was a fad in the 1990’s.

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 09:54 AM PST

    People who really understand BTC and economics, supply chains, cyber security, and banking cannot deny its importance and significance. People ask what the next internet is, and it's been here since 2008. Yes it takes a while to grow, but I will never doubt the significance of cryptocurrency.

    submitted by /u/stocks_fren
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    Cold wallet backup (Ledger Nano X): How it works (question)?

    Posted: 15 Nov 2020 03:30 AM PST

    Hello, I am new to cold wallet storage and have been watching some videos and tutorials but could not find this answer. To the point, when I setup my Ledger Nano X I will get a 24-word recovery phrase.

    Then I start storing my cryptos in the Nano X which is not connected to the internet and is an independent hardware where the "codes" or "keys" for my cryptos are contained.

    If my device breaks or is lost for example, I don't understand how having only the 24 words will be enough to restore my "keys" on a new device? The 24-word does not change when I get new assets and the wallet is not online, where the backup takes information from to find the keys I had on the offline device?

    I am not sure If my question is clear enough, its a quite complicate topic for me as a newbie. Is it the case that the "keys" to my assets are stored online on Ledger's software, and when I use my 24-word phase I can access them or what?

    submitted by /u/Branorsk
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    More Billionaires seeing the long term value in Bitcoin: Stanley Drunkenmiller, Bill Miller

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 04:29 PM PST

    Second Biggest Bank in World Embraces Bitcoin

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 01:09 PM PST

    Is Satoshi's BTC Wallet Proof of how Secure Bitcoin Truly Is?

    Posted: 15 Nov 2020 04:52 AM PST

    Almost 20 billion just sitting there waiting for any hacker to try and get it and for years and years no one is able to get their hands on it. Forget hacking his wallet, we still can't even figure out his/her identity or location he/she was from....

    submitted by /u/teresenahopaaega
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    Holding is the way folks.

    Posted: 15 Nov 2020 01:35 AM PST

    Don't HODL to Sell, HODL to spend!

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 07:13 AM PST

    I feel that if people HODL to eventually sell and make money (whatever that means, fiat?) it will just make the value go down (fluctuate). I say skip the intermediate step of selling, keep the value high, and buy directly with bitcoin! (in the future since it's still not super convenient yet, and anyway it will have a higher value! )

    submitted by /u/xblitzz
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    Satoshi Day seems to be getting closer.

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 09:24 AM PST

    In November of 2017, just before the big run-up, I suggested that we need a "Satoshi Day"...when one satoshi is equal to one U.S. penny. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7flcw4/satoshi_day_when_one_usd_penny_equals_one_satoshi/ The smallest bitcoin unit would be on the equivalent of the smallest USD unit. When I wrote that, 1 penny would get you 110 sats. Today, 1 penny only gets you 63 pennies. When it's 1-to-1, we're there. That'll be a good day. (I made a calculator doo-hickey for this at http://satoshibitcoinconverter.com/satoshiday.htm.)

    Satoshi Day would mean one BTC would be worth $1 million. That seemed kind of crazy three years ago and still does to a degree. But, to quote Lloyd Christmas, "So, you're telling me there's a chance?"

    With the way things are looking nowadays, that chance seems a little less crazy.

    Satoshi Day just might happen yet.

    submitted by /u/crrdlx
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    Sharing this absolute classic

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 05:31 PM PST

    Bitcoin podcast not focused on mooning and returns

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 09:10 PM PST

    What 1 bitcoin can get you today

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 06:49 AM PST

    Buy tickets to see the Olympics

    publish a novel

    put a down payment on a house

    buy a lifesupply of 3340 pepperoni pizzas

    afford to live in Thailand for 2 years in a rented house at the beach

    pay the kids college tuition

    start a small scale online business

    and ............................................

    submitted by /u/bittruthBTC
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    Keep seeing "not your keys not your BTC"

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 06:42 PM PST

    Currently own BTC on cashapp because it is super convenient to buy on that platform. I understand that the company holds the BTC in my name. Im assuming that this is what "not your keys not your BTC" means? Any info about what this means specifically for newcomers?

    submitted by /u/noughx
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    How can we convince Bandcamp to accept Bitcoin in 2020-2021?

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 06:33 PM PST

    With PP adoption it would make absolute sense to me. Has anyone reached out to them to discuss it? With all the hoopla around Bitcoin lately, this has to happen. Anyone with me on this? :)

    submitted by /u/endpop
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    Bitcoin Logarithmic Regression Projections: Into the Unknown (Part 2)

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 09:33 PM PST

    If Bitcoin existed in 1993 - 2000, Graph

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 03:04 PM PST

    If Bitcoin existed in 1993 - 2000, Graph

    https://preview.redd.it/sepxpzq1eaz51.png?width=2354&format=png&auto=webp&s=04701e781e8ce05efbff9cf3da9ea1356bd7e026

    I spend all day coding these kind of things and thought this might be the place to share it.

    Unique wallets is obviously not meant to be a like for like comparison to population online. And the scales are very different, hundreds v tens of millions. That said you can visibly see the correlation coefficient between these would be very high indeed. Correlation isn't necessarily causation but I find the rate of growth strikingly interesting and the very least its fun to code these kind of graphs.

    I would be curious to see what r/Bitcoin thinks?

    submitted by /u/MacroDataScience
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    Bitcoin and the US Elections

    Posted: 14 Nov 2020 09:01 PM PST

    After the US election shitshow, with accusations of fraud etc. it is pretty obvious that a truly secure method of voting needs to be implemented. There are plenty of blockchain based proposals and implementations for secure voting, but one that is completely tied to Bitcoin - perhaps via a side chain - would be a killer app.

    Just a thought.....

    submitted by /u/BitcoinFourEver
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