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    Cryptocurrency Daily General Discussion - December 3, 2017

    December 03, 2017

    Cryptocurrency Daily General Discussion - December 3, 2017

    Daily General Discussion - December 3, 2017

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 10:06 PM PST

    Welcome to the Daily General Discussion thread!

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    The real difference between Wall Street and Crypto Investors

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 03:20 PM PST

    If you’re new in the crypto space, stop sharing your amount of coins and amount in fiat you have invested. This makes you targets for attacks in the near future if not already

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 08:32 PM PST

    That is all

    submitted by /u/tjs17pct
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    A Lost Gem In A Sea Of Shitcoins

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 03:57 PM PST

    What's up everyone!

     

    Yeah, it's another one of "those". But honestly, after being in the game for long enough, you end up developing an eye for the good coins. Not the "good" ones, the GOOD ones. Believe it or not, research and common sense is the name of the game!

     

    A little bit more about me: I come from a business & logistics management background. I started investing in cryptocurrencies and trading a little more than six months ago. As a person, I am very detail oriented and I've been researching all kinds of cryptos, for hours a day, for the past six months. The more I researched, the more I learned, the more I became hungry for knowledge, and therefore the more i researched. From trading to cryptocurrency basics, their economics, their political implications, the technology revolution they represent, the human psychology aspect as well as emotional trading behaviours (FOMO, FODO, etc.), all of it!

     

    I've purchased Ethereum at 150$ (when I first started in crypto). Then NEO back when it was still AntShares and trading under 3$. Gas (Antcoin back then) at 30c, OMG when it was sub-1$, and ETP at exactly a dollar (selling it later at 5$). This was all before I even knew how to do a basic margin trade & was still in the process of learning about crypto (and while tether still had a "reasonable" market cap! LOL)

     

    My approach is pretty simple when it comes to crypto. I split coins into seven main categories:

     

    -Store of Value (BTC)

    -Payment (DASH, BCH, LTC)

    -Pure Anonymity and/or Evil Stuff (XMR)

    -Platform/platform'ish (ETH, NEO, LISK, CARDANO, ETP, Iota, Factom and the likes)

    -Shitcoins (99% of ERC20 tokens)

    -Absolute Shitcoins (Boolberry, Embercoin et al.)

    -Fee Split / Dividend Coins

     

    That last category is my favorite. While I do strongly believe in diversification (10% store of value, 10% payment, 5% anonymity, 25% platform in my case), I always have a "lean" towards coins that make business sense. Coins that derive their value directly from the amount of usage the platform gets (Factom, for example). Coins such as NEO, BNB, Kucoin, Coss, ICN, TenX and the likes, basically coins that either have a direct "dividend-paying" property (NEO generating gas, Kucoin/Coss awarding holders with a % of the exchange's trading fees) or an indirect "dividend paying" property such as BNB, ICN, TenX using quarterly profits to buy back their own coins and burn them, thus raising the value of the rest of the coins in circulation over time.

     

    Now let's look at market caps of these direct and indirect "dividend" coins.

     

    Neo: 2.3B

    TenX: 246M

    Binance: 200M

    Iconomi: 155M

    Kucoin: 44M (68M at ath, not too long ago)

    Coss: 5M

     

    You see that odd one there with only 5M market cap? Yeah. That's the great buy right now. That's the x10, x20 or even x30 that most people haven't realized yet. That's also the "dividend coin" you can scoop a ton of while it's on the cheap, and make massive recurring revenue from as the exchange solidifies and evolves.

     

    What is COSS? COSS stands for Crypto One Stop Solution. They're a Singapore based cryptocurrency exchange with an amazing team that's currently expanding. They aim at becoming the "One Stop" solution for crypto, meaning A) an exchange, B) a payment gateway for merchants to accept crypto payments, and probably sometime in the future C) crypto debit/credit cards. They offer their own coin (COSS coin), and holders of this coin receive 50% of the trading fees generated by the exchange (more on this later).

     

    Now, what a lot of people still don't realize in crypto, you don't invest in the bigger market cap coins expecting to make a killing ("the moonshot"). Sure, they'll bring you nice long term growth as the whole market matures, and that's where you want to diversify and solidify your portfolio, solid coins with a purpose. But what if you want more thrill? An actual opportunity to "moon"? You find a project that makes business sense, that has at least a working product, and a good team. Buying NEO at 2.5B market cap? You missed the boat, it was a dollar a few months ago and already went x60 ("mooned"), and now stabilized at roughly x38. OMG had it's x10-15 already. BNB as well. Their market caps are big, and a lot of buying needs to happen to even double in price.

     

    Antshares (NEO) back then was a steal at 1, 2 and 3$. It was a huge risk, with huge rewards. They didn't even have a product other than their blockchain. No dApp running or even being built on it, no english resources to even figure out how to code on it and deploy a smart contract, no marketing, hell we didn't even know if Da Hongfei was still alive. All it was is a Chinese based smart contract platform, with an innovative dBFT concensus algorithm. It was a 100M market cap coin that early adopters believed in, and essentially invested in when it was not much more than a website and a blockchain. Look where it's at now, with more than a dozen dApps being built on it, a solid team of roughly 10 devs, with the NEO council also funding City of Zion (team of 20+ NEO devs). NEO has grown into an incredible community, and is now launching coding dApp contests left and right, with the latest one in partnership with Microsoft china & offering half a million dollar's worth in prizes.

     

    NEO holders get rewarded with GAS on a daily basis. When NEO gets further adoption, all fees such as registering an asset, deploying a contract, changing an asset, etc. will be redistributed to NEO holders as well on a pro rated basis. Only transaction fees are not, as those will go out to MasterNodes. If you got yourself a thousand NEO's back when they were a dollar or two a piece, you're now generating 7 gas per month. That's roughly 161$ USD per month, on a recurring basis, at current gas prices, out of a 1000$ investment. That's a whopping 16.1% PER MONTH on original investment, and not even counting the fact that you pretty much made 37000$ profit on the NEO's themselves. Today? Well, you gotta dish out 38000$ to buy a thousand neos and make 161$ per month, basically bringing you 0.4% per month on original investment.

     

    Same with bitcoin. Early adopters that got it at pennies. It just hit $10K USD a piece. For every 30 cent spent purchasing bitcoin in 2009, you'd have $10K USD in the bank account. Invested 3$? 100K. Invested 30$? 1M.

     

    Ethereum? From a dollar to half a grand now.

     

    Moral of the story? Early adoption pays off. History repeats itself, and it will continue to do so. Bitcoin was digital money for nerds, ethereum was a cool project that nobody really gave a crap about until they got EEA which showed credibility (early adopters of eth had a great vision, I'll give them that!). Neo was chinese vaporware. What do they all have in common? Their.Early. Adopters. Made. A. Killing.

     

    Look where they stand now. Look where a lot of coins stand now. Even a lot of ERC20 tokens that don't even really have a reason to exist have market caps over 100M. And for what? They don't reward you with anything other than price increasing because more people buy (greater fool theory)? They don't reward you with dividends from the project/platform itself? Their value isn't derived directly from the amount of usage it gets (a la Factom, /u/PaulSnow you genius.)? They still don't even have a minimum viable product to show? When you ask yourself why does it need a coin, and the answer is either "uhh…" or "oh it grants you voting rights" (that nobody gives a crap about, let's be honest), you should reconsider your investment strategy. Cause I can tell you a lot of people don't know what the hell they're doing, and they'd be better off diversifying in the top 5 or 10 coins and holding than investing in the shitcoinfest that crypto has become.

     

    And that's why COSS is a pretty buy right now. You're investing in a platform that's already up and running, not a whitepaper or vaporware. Hell even Eth and Neo were riskier investments for early adopters. Let's go over the cons first:

     

    It's ugly. The UI sucks.

    It doesn't have API's yet, meaning there's no bots to create liquidity, and therefore low volume.

    It's been fudded to death by KuCoin shills (and their referral links you've seen everywhere a month ago).

    Charts are horrible

     

    That's about it. Whenever you read up about coss, those are the cons you'll find. But what about the pros? Well, all of this is in the process of being fixed, as we speak.

     

    Singapore has lax laws about cryptocurrencies and issued a statement it does not feel the need to regulate them.

    It's securing exclusive ICO's already despite being a tiny exchange, and has mentioned being able to secure from 4 to 6 per month.

    The team listens to the community's feedback and takes it seriously. This is Gold. One of the first things they were criticized about was trying to do too many things at once (an exchange, a payment gateway, a full one-stop solution for crypto, etc.) and they've taken the community's advice and decided to focus solely on the exchange for now and build it properly, before branching out to the rest. "Better excel at one thing and build from there, than be mediocre at multiple things at once"

    Also following community feedback, they are implementing trading promotions "a la Binance".

    Part of the total supply of COSS tokens will be donated to charities (the community votes to who they go). First of all, that's just plain nice. Secondly, I find it pretty damn cool that we donate this for good causes, and they basically keep "generating" income from it. It's basically like a "perpetual donation" on behalf of COSS and all of its users, and definitely will make a lot of people feel good about using the exchange. Thirdly, this pretty much guarantees millions of COSS tokens are going to be in perpetual "HODL" mode, essentially taking them off the market.

    They will be implementing a FIAT gateway sooner than later. We all know FIAT gateways are game changers.

    They are constantly hiring. The team growing is definitely a good sign.

    They are revamping the overall UI and charts, once again following the community's advice, and the proposed new look is fantastic! Check it out here, as well as other great announcements: https://medium.com/@runeevensen/coss-io-7379b7628d93 EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that there is a UI upgrade scheduled for tomorrow (Dec. 3rd), although it isn't clear if it's a minor one or the actual major overhaul, might wanna keep an eye out on that!

    They are upgrading the matching engine and releasing API's soon to allow bots to create liquidity and significantly raise the trading volume.

    Unlike KuCoin, the revenue split (COSS token holders) will always receive 50% of the fees, whereas kucoin will start decreasing it in 4-6months and it will bottom out at 10-15%

    The revenue split from trading fees is controlled by a DAO, meaning the COSS team cannot arbitrarily decide to change it later down the line, unlike KuCoin where the control over the fee split is centralized and they decrease it as they please.

    The DAO model also avoids it being labeled a security. First of all, those aren't really "dividends" as dividends would require them to calculate income minus expenses to determine profit, and then distribute this profit to shareholders, and obviously that's a legal nightmare. With the DAO model, you don't get a percentage of the "profits", you get a revenue split from the exchange fees, and it's done by clicking a "distribute" button which makes a call to the smart contract and distributes your coins. COSS itself is not giving you anything

    COSS is still in Beta. It has a tiny market cap. Now's the time to pick it up, not when it's out of beta and has become successful, or you'll be in another Antshares/NEO situation. A ridiculously small move from 5M to 50M in Mcap and that's x10, a move from 5M to 150M (still under binance levels) and that's x30.

    In the long run, COSS aims to be more than just an exchange. Holders of the token, who currently get 50% of the exchange's trading fees, will also get 50% of other fees charged from coss. This includes their eventual payment gateway. Merchants around the world wishing to accept crypto payments will be able to use COSS's gateway and COSS will charge a 0.75% fee per transaction. We, as COSS holders, also get 50% of that. You believe crypto is the future and going mainstream? Well your COSS will entitle you to the revenue generated by tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of businesses accepting crypto payments via COSS Point-Of-Sale.

    COSS also mentioned that all other COSS "fee generating" products to come will all be subject to the same DAO/50% split. Logically, If they have 1) The trading platform, and 2) the payment gateway, then the third step is solving the problem of spending the crypto in places that don't accept direct crypto payment, AKA a crypto credit/debit card. Well, guess what? Users of such cards will be charged a small fee as well when their crypto is being converted to fiat in real time for payment at a gas station. We as COSS holders are, again, getting 50% of that fee. As you can see, this is a coin that makes business sense to invest in. Unless you really, reaaaaaally care about a coin being the "Future of decentralized prediction markets" or "the future of decentralized dating" or the "decentralized gambling coin" and whatnot.

    Smart money is smart. It's only a matter of time before savvy investors discover this coin.

     

    What do the dividends look like (credits to /u/lickmypussy28):

     

    Here's an excel showing the Yearly %ROI based on the COSS exchange volume and your COSS token buy-in price: https://i.imgur.com/XKjjCbZ.png

     

    Here's another one showing how much you'd make in USD per year based on how many COSS tokens you own, again all relative to the volume on the left: https://i.imgur.com/p15DKAr.png

     

    Lastly, here's another showing the exact same as above but on a weekly basis: https://i.imgur.com/ezp5FCV.png

     

    ALTHOUGH, keep in mind, the calculations above take into consideration an average trading fee of 0.2% and while this fee is accurate right now, it will most likely average 0.1% once API's are released and liquidity/market maker bots start operating on the platform. Also, the calculations above do NOT take into consideration that in 4 years from now, there will be 200M (hard cap) COSS tokens on the market. HOWEVER, these calculations also do not take into consideration that by then, COSS will have a fully up and running payment gateway, crypto credit cards, and other revenue-generating products such as a crowdfunding platform, smart contract deployment platform, etc. that are also generating revenue for COSS holders.

     

    All in all, if all goes as planned, the payment gateway/cards/other products will negate the additional COSS tokens released in the market as well as the average trading fee of 0.1%, and therefore the numbers presented in the excel docs will remain sensibly the same. Also, if crypto really takes off in the mainstream, then the revenue split to coss holders from the payment gateway & credit card spending could very well double, triple or quadruple all the numbers you're seeing in these excel sheets, and that's on the low end. Remember, the exchange only charges 0.2% (0.1% average once we have bots) out of which we get half, but the payment gateway on the other hand charges a flat 0.75% (7.5x the what the exchange's fee), out of which COSS holders get half. This could be a massive revenue driver, easily surpassing the exchange itself, and honestly if at that point in time this coin is NOT valued at 3B+ (I mean, even ethereum classic is over that right now..), then I'll just give up on the whole notion of logical thinking.

     

    Quick example, assuming in 4 years 50M in gateway processing daily (18B yearly), 0.375% of that would be 187.5K USD daily for COSS holders. With 200M Coss tokens total supply, if you hold 10K coss you'd generate 9.375$ per day (65$ per week, 282$/mo.), and that's purely from the gateway (totally excluding the exchange revenue, crowdfunding revenue, credit card revenue, etc.).

     

    If you have 100K coss you'd generate 93.7$/day, 650$/week, 2820$/mo, again purely from the gateway.

     

    If you'd rather assume more conservative figures (let's say 25M in daily gateway processing on COSS, all around the globe, or 9B yearly), then simply divide these figures by half. If you wanna go balls to the walls, double them (100M daily, 36B yearly). Play around, have fun with the numbers! To keep things in perspective, square has processed 50B's worth of transactions in 2016. Therefore I believe using 9B, 18B and 36B for our calculations isn't too far fetched, and actually pretty reasonable.

     

    Anyway, to sum this up, no matter how you look at it, COSS is an extremely promising project with huge potential, and actually has working math (and a working beta!) behind it. It's only a matter of a month or two before they're out of their Beta, have upgrades to their UI and engine, and start really growing from there. The team listens to the community, which is super important, and they're working on a multitude of revenue streams, out of which not only them, but all coss holders will benefit from, fifty fifty.

     

    Their crowdfunding platform will be a competitor to indiegogo, gofundme, kickstarter, and they'll have a small percentage fee (50% of which goes to COSS holders). The crypto Point-Of-Sale will be a competitor to Square and the likes (50% revenue to COSS holders). The crypto credit card (also 50% revenue to COSS holders). It is truely an admirable project. Shovel manufacturers made a killing during the gold rush, and COSS is positioning itself as the shovel manufacturer in the crypto adoption gold rush. This is a coin that makes sense to invest in, it is ultra tangible, and will give greater returns than any type of "decentralized [insert function here]" type coins.

     

    On a personal note: Honestly, I believe this is the proper way to ICO, by NOT giving people worthless tokens that only go up in value due to speculation (looking at you, 99% of ERC20 tokens). Let investors guide you, let them reap 50% of the rewards as THEY are the ones funding you. This'll keep the investors interested in the project, and every single one of them will have a direct incentive to vouch for your product. It's only right for the investors to get rewarded with something tangible, I'd take that any day over a speculative shitcoin who's only purpose was to put money in the project's founders pockets

     

    Oh, and cherry on the sundae: they are planning on launching massive marketing campaigns as soon as UI and trading engine are ready, Q1 2018, as you can see in Rune's Nov 27th update. I suggest you read it, it puts us up to date on a lot of exciting new things: https://medium.com/@runeevensen/coss-io-update-november-27th-fa74f1237062

     

    Quoted directly from said link: "For those that are most interested in discussions regarding the trading price of COSS. Please have in mind that when we entered our token sale, our clear sales message was a 3–5 year road-map, and not a 3–5 months pump and dump. We are a small team, doing our utmost to deliver and all we ask is for you to continue to give us feedback and also for you to give us some time to deliver. *That being said. We still aim to be out of BETA as soon as possible with a new engine for the exchange in Q1 2018. New UI should be in place well before that.** Once we feel we have this in place we will roll out massive marketing campaigns to attract users and increased volume. So although we have a 3–5 year road-map ahead, you should expect to see 2018 being "our year". The 3–5 year plan is more on the complete roadmap when we proudly can call ourselves a one-stop solution. For now it is all about the exchange, and there we will see rapid changes over the coming weeks/months."*

     

    All in all, i'd like to thank the COSS team for actually caring about their investors, keeping them in the loop, listening to their feedback and giving them a unique and tangible opportunity. I'd also like to thank all the other COSS investors, who see a huge potential in this project and support the team, and lastly, all of you crypto-heads for reading through!

     

    Happy hodling, and hopefully see you all at 500M+ market cap by late 2018 :)

     

    -Some random guy on Reddit.

     

    PS: Not investment advice. Always do your due diligence. Also, if you'd like, you can join the discussion at /r/cossIO

     

    Friendly reminder: ETH is the quickest way to get your funds on the COSS exchange, and COSS/ETH pair has 4x the volume of the COSS/BTC pair.

    submitted by /u/globetrotter_s14
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    NEO's Da Hongfei's to give keynote speech: "The State of Blockchain in China. Now and the Future" @ Blockchain World Conference Tomorrow

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 11:24 PM PST

    Why Ark Deserves Your Attention

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 10:13 AM PST

    LoMoStar/LoMoCoin Chinesewhitepaper and condensed English whitepaper just got released explaining the concept of the Social Economy!

    Posted: 03 Dec 2017 02:16 AM PST

    Vertcoin Core 0.12 Released!

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 06:03 PM PST

    Waltonchain (WTC) has hit a new Fiat ATH, surpassing the old ATH of $8.80

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 12:16 PM PST

    Magnate Billionaire Carl Icahn: BTC Seems Like a Bubble

    Posted: 03 Dec 2017 04:10 AM PST

    Ark Smart Bridges

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 09:58 PM PST

    Does the exact same thing as shapeshift.... I don't get the excitement?

    submitted by /u/phachen
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    New JP Morgan research shows Cryptos could actually surpass gold in market cap.

    Posted: 03 Dec 2017 12:19 AM PST

    Vertcoin rapidly approaching all-time-high

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 10:35 AM PST

    Intro to the Internet of Money - Best Andreas Antonopoulos Video Yet

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 07:37 PM PST

    QASH will be listed on Binance soon, get in before it does

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 06:03 PM PST

    Lately I've been seeing a lot of posts about QASH. I remember also hearing and ignoring a lot of posts back when WTC, VTC, and ETP were small.

    I'm not making that mistake again, and QASH definitely seems promising amidst the rubble. Here's a quick video about it https://youtu.be/FEdVzU1aHNY

    The fact that QUIONE is backing this project is already a big deal.

    submitted by /u/Midbell
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    It's official, people care more about bitcoin than sex.

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 02:18 PM PST

    The Cryptokitties Genesis Cat was just sold for 250 ETH. Thoughts?

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 02:19 PM PST

    So this new cat trading game just launched on Ethereum. It's got like 1000 users and something like 9% of all ETH transaction volume.

    I thought it was a novelty but I just saw that someone actually bought the genesis cat (the first cat) for 250 ETH. ($100k+)

    This is a fad right? https://twitter.com/CryptoKitties/status/937058830143254528 https://etherscan.io/tx/0xf365be10a326b894cc13ddd3edf55a2db6ec517e1af83741df61fb9b09b37118

    Thoughts?

    submitted by /u/iherox8
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    Best Moonshot cryptos for 2018

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 06:58 PM PST

    Which coin(s) do you think will grow the most in 2018? With your coin, please say a brief description of the tech or why it will go up.

    I like

    • XRB (raiblocks, instant transactions)
    • COSS (pays dividends)
    • QASH (solves liquidity)
    • Xtrabytes (pumped on here lol)
    submitted by /u/reteps144
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    Keep an eye out for Quantstamp

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 11:23 PM PST

    Multiple partnerships pending

    Proof of hodl reward system to be annonced (Payment incentive that rewards long term token holders)

    One of the first cryptocurrencies to give out free airdropped coins (from the tokens they audit)

    Bittrex hasn't been added yet (expect a massive uptick in price after this)

    Y-Combinater Company ( Companies like
    Dropbox, Airbnb, Coinbase, and Reddit, came out of Y-Combinator )

    CEO Richard Ma was on the panel alongside big players like NEO and OMG ceo's in todays blockchain conference

    Coindesk cited Quantstamp as the #1 coin investors are talking about (huge publication)

    Validator nodes pending (essentially like mining)

    18k telegram group and growing.

    Already 2x up since Ico a week ago and plenty of room to grow.

    Need I say more?

    For those interested in investing in QSP, Binance is currently the easiest way of doing so. Feel free to use my Invitation link to give us both bonuses,

    https://imgur.com/a/Cigf4

    submitted by /u/AnujMofficial
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    Wish you all a great VTCember

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 03:33 PM PST

    For all the newcomers here who aren’t familiar with crypto whales. Here is what they like to do to newcomers.

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 04:43 PM PST

    Just a quick reminder why Bitcoin was invented in the first place. This used to be preaching to the choir. But these days I am not so sure.

    Posted: 03 Dec 2017 12:08 AM PST

    Unbelievable moves on VTC, GPU mining is alive

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 06:28 PM PST

    Elixir - why I'm bullish on this project

    Posted: 03 Dec 2017 02:31 AM PST

    Last week Elixir's market cap was 2.4 million dollar. It is quite low because this is a non ICO funded project. Today the market cap hit 5 million and it is still going strong. The project is nearing the MVP and everything is still on schedule.

    With this cap, Elix is on the 374th place of CMC. The project is fishing in the person to person lending pond, which is trending. This pond is huge... let's take a look at SALT... not a direct competitor, but certainly fishing in the same pond. SALT (placed 38th) has a market cap of 278 million dollars, which at the moment dwarfs Elix's 2.4 million cap. Doing a little math, should the coin enter the top 150, it would mean your investent would go x7. Should it enter the top 100, it would mean roughly a x14 ROI.

    During the latest AMA we learned from the devs that the product comes before marketing. They said that once the MVP is out, they will focus on marketing and exchange listing. Now that delivery of the product is nearing, all the above facts combined give it a very bullish outlook.

    The devs have been working on this product for a long time without ICO funding. They have been delivering weekly updates of their progress like clockwork. Huge green flags all around.

    submitted by /u/DutchDolt
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    Institutional investment in Ethereum?

    Posted: 02 Dec 2017 09:59 AM PST

    In 2016, Vitalik Buterin, the creator of the Ethereum blockchain, met with the Chairman & CEO of the largest banking group in Central Europe. This meeting led to the CEO showing an interest in blockchain technology, particularly in Ethereum. He was contemplating a substantial institutional investment into Ethereum but legal requirements hindered the deal from going through. CyberTrust will remove these legal barriers and bring institutions to crypto markets. https://www.cybertrust.io

    submitted by /u/alexberezov
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