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    Home Unlabelled Bitcoin Cash There never was a "scaling problem." The only problem is "people that don't want Bitcoin to scale." (xpost from rbtc)

    Bitcoin Cash There never was a "scaling problem." The only problem is "people that don't want Bitcoin to scale." (xpost from rbtc)

    November 30, 2017

    Bitcoin Cash There never was a "scaling problem." The only problem is "people that don't want Bitcoin to scale." (xpost from rbtc)

    There never was a "scaling problem." The only problem is "people that don't want Bitcoin to scale." (xpost from rbtc)

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 06:22 AM PST

    This is a necessarily long post that seeks to undo a major misunderstanding and help people to understand what happened to Bitcoin and why we have Bitcoin Cash.

    I frequently get asked, "how will Bitcoin Cash solve Bitcoin's fundamental scaling problem?"

    The idea that Bitcoin has some fundamental scaling problem is a misunderstanding as old as Bitcoin itself.

    Check out this email exchange in 2008 between Satoshi and Mike Hearn > James Donald. Mike James has already spotted the "scaling problem" and points it out to Satoshi:

    To detect and reject a double spending event in a timely manner, one must have most past transactions of the coins in the transaction, which, naively implemented, requires each peer to have most past transactions, or most past transactions that occurred recently. If hundreds of millions of people are doing transactions, that is a lot of bandwidth

    There it is. "Naively implemented" Bitcoin would require everyone to keep a record of all transactions - ie "everyone must run a full node."

    Satoshi corrects him:

    Long before the network gets anywhere near as large as that, it would be safe for users to use Simplified Payment Verification (section 8) to check for double spending, which only requires having the chain of block headers, or about 12KB per day.

    Aha! There is no real need for individuals to keep a copy of all transactions. Which makes sense - who wants to keep a copy of everyone else's transactions just to buy a coffee?

    But who can be trusted to keep our transactions? Satoshi answers on the next line:

    Only people trying to create new coins would need to run network nodes.

    There it is folks.

    Miners - y'know, the ones currently getting paid $150K every ten minutes - have both the incentives and the means to maintain the blockchain, without which the goose that lays their digital-gold eggs will die.

    Businesses also need to maintain copies of the blockchain for audit and systems integration purposes among others.

    So what's the scaling "problem?" Once we take end-users mostly out of the equation, it's clear that the technology is easily capable of scaling this design up to extremely high throughput. Understanding this was key to my getting involved in Bitcoin in the first place! With modest hardware current versions of Bitcoin Cash are already capable of "Paypal levels" of scaling, already 20-30X more than Bitcoin Segwit, and by next year I think we'll see another 10X on top of that. That vastly exceeds even our rosiest 2-3 year capacity requirements.

    There isn't a "scaling problem." It just doesn't exist. The "scaling problem" is really an "adoption opportunity" since there's abundant cheap capacity just lying around asking for businesses to build stuff on it.

    No. There's no scaling problem at all. The only problem that exists is "people that don't want Bitcoin to scale."

    There are several classes of these people.

    1. is a group who believes that larger blocks will cause fatal mining centralization. The problem with this belief is that the cost to store and transmit blockchain data is a tiny fraction of the cost to mine. Most of the costs to mining are electricity consumption, plant, property, mining equipment, and personnel. Storage for a year's worth of totally-full 32MB "paypal level" blocks is roughly $100 in today's prices and coming down all the time. But the cost to actually reliably mine a Bitcoin block is (edit: tens-to-) hundreds of thousands of dollars per day. Storage and data transmission don't even enter into the equation. Others point to the orphaning problem inherent in relaying large blocks but this is essentially erased by xthin blocks and miners being on an ultrafast network. In short the idea that bigger blocks will cause mining centralization is total speculation and could in fact be dead wrong.

    2. another group believes that larger blocks will centralize "nonmining full nodes." First off, as long as mining is reasonably decentralized, it is unclear that there is any network requirement for there to be "non mining full nodes" - people would only run these when they had some need for all the world's transaction data. Past that, it is true that the costs to transmit and store the blockchain go up as blocks get larger, all other things held equal. However, the costs remain minimal to a business - $100 to store a year's worth of always-full 32MB blocks is simply not a barrier to entry for any business. And as Satoshi pointed out, individuals really have no need to keep a copy of all the world's transactions just to use the system. Without going into great detail it's my opinion that many people who worry about "full node centralization" are simply victims of censorship and community manipulation. Here's a great article on how "full nodes" that don't mine are a tiny piece of the decentralization puzzle.

    3. a third group of people who don't want Bitcoin to scale are essentially here to harm Bitcoin or move its value elsewhere. If Bitcoin can't work as intended as P2P cash, then that's terrific news for legacy banking. It's also great news for Ethereum, Monero, Dash, and everyone else who has a coin that does work as P2P cash - all forms of "off chain scaling" (the demand moves off the Bitcoin chain). Lightning Network is also a form of "off chain scaling" that ultimately could harm onchain security by moving transaction value off of the blockchain. In short, anything that aims to "scale" by moving value off the blockchain onto another chain or layer benefits from ensuring that onchain Bitcoin cannot scale.

    A word needs to be added about so-called "offchain" or "L2" scaling.

    "Offchain scaling" is like "scaling" an underground metro by never adding new lines, trains, or cars so that when demand increases, people walk or ride in surface taxis instead (edit: then going into the cab business!). The only way to scale the subway is to put more people on more subway trains.

    So to repeat, it is clear to many people that there exists no "scaling problem." The only problem that exists are people who don't want to add more capacity.

    submitted by /u/jessquit
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    What this guy said is simple logic... I don't understand why it's so difficult to comprehend for some people. If you are receiving exactly the same service, but one is 100 times cheaper, 10 times faster, twice as secure... wouldn't customers and businesses prefer that?

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 12:11 PM PST

    We are spreading the word of bitcoin cash in Colorado! :)

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 10:11 AM PST

    After seeing all the great posts on r/btc, My husband and I decided to create some flyers of our own to give to our DoorDash customers. We were amazed by the positive response we had by the community. Nearly every one of them seemed genuinely interested in learning what Bitcoin cash was all about. We will continue to evangelize our community until everyone in town knows about the power of this technology! Below I have attached some of our deliveries that stuck out to us, as well as an image file of our flyer so that others may print copies if they so choose.

    Flyer https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1GUfb15297rcPzuNneHn92Dk5hwD_jmMqNqvk-7z-zkQ/edit?usp=sharing

    Pictures Imgur Imgur Imgur Imgur

    submitted by /u/luciamehta
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    The Truth About The Lightening Network

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 10:33 AM PST

    How can we accept bitcoin cash at our bar

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 01:16 AM PST

    Hi guys, I'm a partner in a bar and we want to except crypto. Now the guy running the bar was going to accept bitcoin but is aware of the lag and crazy fees, anyway we can accept bitcoin cash are there merchant options out there etc?

    Thanks for your help in advance!

    submitted by /u/lou_harms
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    BCH has pumped over every weekend in November and with the amount of unconfirmed transactions on BTC recently, I think it’s time BCH to rise. We all know history repeats itself, so new highs and high lowers are imminent IMO. Thoughts?

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 11:37 AM PST

    For BCH to rise*

    submitted by /u/mmj9341
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    How To Mine Your Own Bitcoin And Altcoins!

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 12:32 PM PST

    Bitcoincash telegram group?

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 08:14 AM PST

    Hey guys, big supporter of bcc and it's vision, after this dip I think we are going to see big candles up to 1.7-2k.

    Anybody know if there's a bcc telegram group?

    submitted by /u/666TheNumberOfMyCock
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    Coinbase opens up BCH January 1, 2018

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 06:19 AM PST

    What will this do for BCH???

    submitted by /u/mike9871
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    PEOPLE ARE PANICKING TO SELL. HOLD AND BUY NOW. THE MARKET HAS NEVER BEEN THIS RED.

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 06:28 AM PST

    BCH technical analysis

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 10:28 AM PST

    Here is my analysis : https://image.prntscr.com/image/Hx_E17RmRlGl1mgsSn0s4w.png

    As you can see, there is a ... a... bounce.. ish... effect coming very soon, u should all buy & hold !

    submitted by /u/Kantanine
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    We built a cryptocurrency price tracking site, with real-time updates, a mobile friendly version and some advanced features. Where to now?

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 01:10 PM PST

    Hello,

    There are quite a few sites showing crypto prices and related data, but I still felt it could be done better. So I worked 3 months with a friend of mine to create CoinVision.io.

    We tried to have a fast, mobile friendly frontpage and we think allowing you to star your favorite coins is very useful. Prices update automatically and in real-time as we pull data straight from 36+ exchanges (grows by the day). Finally we put a lot of work in the portfolio and alerting system, although it is still arguably far from perfect.

    We'd love to hear some honest feedback!

    submitted by /u/daremon
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    Helperbit launches the blockchain-based platform for transparent donations in the Italian Parliament

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 09:11 AM PST

    Three epic memes about current direction of "bcore"

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 01:48 PM PST

    Bittrex sends out a warning against 'Pump and Dump' scams

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 05:25 AM PST

    How many BCH will Coinbase be releasing on Jan 1st ?

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 10:26 AM PST

    Isn't it likely that if it's like a huge amount handed out to peoples who probably aren't that much into BCH (otherwise they would've been on an exchange that supported it in the first place) and will most likely sell it off, that this price pressure is a bad sign for the near future and that BCH at least won't go up significantly before that impactful event took place ?

    Are there any concrete positive signs on the near horizon to compensate for this about-to-happen Coinbase scenario ?

    I'm 2 seconds away from bailing ship.

    submitted by /u/Rombbb
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    I just bought bitcoin cash

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 12:24 PM PST

    I bought enough to have equal amount of btc. now I can sleep well. lol. their is no other way but to have equal of both.

    submitted by /u/samakt
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    A WHALE is accumulating Bitcoin Cash to the MOON. Something smells in the market

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 12:02 AM PST

    PBC

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 06:35 AM PST

    Lol. Remember that PBC giveaway where Teeka was like "I'll give you your money back if you don't make X amount. I wonder if he'll stick to his word.....

    submitted by /u/Omzz888
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    ICO Tips: How To Launch A Successful Offering

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 04:43 AM PST

    This Video Explains Segwit and Why it's Bad.

    Posted: 29 Nov 2017 07:11 PM PST

    Becky's Affiliated: How Blockchain and Bitcoin Cash are set to disrupt Venture Capital

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 12:34 AM PST

    Keep HODLING: Technical analysis reports that something BIG is happening in 2-3 days. Remember to be patient! We'll be making money on the REAL bitcoin soon!

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 02:13 PM PST

    BitCoin's future

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 02:12 PM PST

    What if when the time will come they update the BitCoin and ignore BCH?

    Is it technically possible?

    submitted by /u/sosoyan
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    This Sub scared me away from BCH

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 10:26 AM PST

    The combination of ridiculous TA (looking at you "11:30 AM" guy), fake new user accounts, weird & clearly paid shill posts, and the general decline in morale in this sub has led me to convert all of my BCH to ETH.

    Good luck to the rest of you, there are some decent folks here & I hope you all get rich!

    submitted by /u/ASkillz82
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    What do these things have in common:

    Posted: 30 Nov 2017 01:57 PM PST

    The Patriot Act Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act Farm Bill American Recovery & Reinvestment Act Right to Work Laws Protect Life Act Defense of Marriage Act The Internet FreedomAct Net Neutrality Lightning Network

    submitted by /u/GotThatData
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    Read more
    at

    1 comment:

    1. AnonymousMay 18, 2018 at 10:15 AM

      Crypto economics: time to remove intermediaries
      There are mediators in any economic relations. There are so many of them that even laws treat mediation as a separate type of activity.
      Thus, the Civil Code identifies five types of intermediaries:
      • Commercial representatives: they receive instructions from entrepreneurs and fulfill them;
      • Commission agents: try to sell goods produced by the manufacturer;
      • Attorneys receive orders from entrepreneurs to sell goods and try to promote sales as much as possible;
      • Agents: conclude contracts for sale of goods on behalf of entrepreneurs;
      • Distributors: conduct wholesale trade in goods which are delivered to them by the producer.
      Do we need the above mediators? Undoubtedly, in some cases they perform useful functions. For example, if the manufacturer is experiencing difficulties with sale of goods or it is difficult to deal with the nuances of the legislation, it chooses a good intermediary and pays it for high-quality services.
      There is nothing wrong with the above example. However, the problem is that this does not always happen. Most often, intermediaries do not do anything, but want to get a percent (and rather big) of each transaction.
      Apparently, what’s wrong with that? Many believe that if producers need intermediaries and are willing to pay them, then so be it. However, such an opinion is fundamentally wrong.
      After all, the manufacturer lays down the cost of intermediary services in the value of the goods. Because of this, product prices are constantly rising, and buyers spend more and more money. In the short term, it is only consumers that suffer. But in the long run, economic growth and living standards are declining.
      Crypto economy breaks artificial barriers between the producer and the end user of goods. They will be able to interact with each other through platforms that do not obey anyone.
      Industrial decentralization is the future. Both buyers of goods and the companies that produce them will benefit from the crypto economy. Ultimately, this will make society healthier and fairer.
      Middlemen will disappear from production with the advent of the Yodse platform. It is a unique space where producers and consumers find each other. Yodse assumes only direct interaction between users; there is no place for intermediaries here.

      https://yodse.io/

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