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    Cryptocurrency Daily Discussion - December 29, 2020 (GMT+0)

    December 29, 2020

    Cryptocurrency Daily Discussion - December 29, 2020 (GMT+0)

    Daily Discussion - December 29, 2020 (GMT+0)

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 04:00 PM PST

    Welcome to the Daily Discussion. Please read the disclaimer, guidelines, and rules before participating.

    Disclaimer:

    Though karma rules still apply, moderation is less stringent on this thread than on the rest of the sub. Therefore, consider all information posted here with several liberal heaps of salt, and always cross check any information you may read on this thread with known sources. Any trade information posted in this open thread may be highly misleading, and could be an attempt to manipulate new readers by known "pump and dump (PnD) groups" for their own profit. BEWARE of such practices and exercise utmost caution before acting on any trade tip mentioned here.

    Please be careful about what information you share and the actions you take. Do not share the amounts of your portfolios (why not just share percentage?). Do not share your private keys or wallet seed. Use strong, non-SMS 2FA if possible. Beware of scammers and be smart. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose, and do not fall for pyramid schemes, promises of unrealistic returns (get-rich-quick schemes), and other common scams.

    Rules:

    • All sub rules apply in this thread. The prior exemption for karma and age requirements is no longer in effect.
    • Discussion topics must be related to cryptocurrency.
    • Behave with civility and politeness. Do not use offensive, racist or homophobic language.
    • Comments will be sorted by newest first.

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    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    Coinbase will suspend trading in XRP on January 19

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 02:40 PM PST

    Elon Musk says Mars economy will run on cryptocurrency

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 04:32 AM PST

    CoinFlip's CEO Says Company Plans to have Over 3,000 Bitcoin ATMs in the US by 2021

    Posted: 29 Dec 2020 12:28 AM PST

    Vechain files US Patent for Logistics Tracking and Source Tracing

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 04:14 PM PST

    Why I think Nano will fail and why I think it is irresponsible to recommend it.

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 11:38 AM PST

    Why I think Nano will fail and why I think it is irresponsible to recommend it.

    First of all – season's greetings, merry Christmas, and happy holidays to you all! I hope everyone had a good time and managed to spend a few days (hours?) away from the charts. There is more to life than crypto, and sometimes it's good to remember that.

    Anyway, I had a bit of time on my hands and wanted to get something off my chest. Apologies for the clickbait title, but I want to spark some debate.

    We've just seen the first bull market for three years and many coins are massively up. One regularly shilled token is not among them. Let's have a quick delve into why this might be. I don't want to unfairly bash Nano here, but I am going to try and bring some objective facts to light, and you can make up your own mind.

    ​

    "I don't really care about being right, I just care about success. I don't mind being wrong, and I'll admit that I'm wrong a lot. It doesn't really matter to me too much." ~ Steve Jobs

    ​

    The thing that was starting to annoy me this year was that lots of new people were joining the sub, starting to get into crypto, and asking simple questions only to be met with guys like u/SenatusSPQR on EVERY. DAMN. POST talking about our Lord and Saviour Nano.

    These new people were told to bet on the wrong horse. I find that misguided at best and malicious at worst.

    People buying crypto want their investment to go up. Nano obviously didn't do that. If you care at all about the worth of your investment (and you should), then Nano was the wrong pick.

    There is an opportunity to make life-changing amounts of money, and/or be part of a decentralized financial revolution. We should be recommending the right coins to newcomers. There is HUGE opportunity cost of getting it wrong. Imagine stumbling on r/CryptoCurrency earlier this year and thinking "BTC is too expensive" and buying something else instead.

    Here is a year comparison of Nano vs, BTC, ETH, XMR, ADA

    Did you bet on a winning horse or a donkey?

    The way I see it BTC is the king, Eth does DeFi, ADA is a hedge against Eth, and Monero does privacy. There are many other coins that represent different market segments. Lots of them outperformed Nano.

    Now at this point, considering many coins have recovered since 2018, I'd say there are two viewpoints one could adopt re: Nano.

    1. "The price is wrong dammit, one day Nano will rise again!"
    2. "Nano isn't recovering, what have I missed?"

    I think it's more useful to adopt the second viewpoint. At some point, I think you have to adopt the second viewpoint. But many will continue to hold the first. This can be explained by a number of cognitive biases. You might remember from my previous post on longterm investing that I'm a fan of this stuff.

    The endowment effect refers to when we "overvalue something that we own, regardless of its objective market value".

    I would say that accurately describes the most vocal Nano holders. The market has spoken. Again, rather than see this as continued evidence that Nano is undervalued, instead you could see it as evidence that it is fairly valued, and that you have missed something.

    If at any point this year, you had sold Nano and bought ETH or BTC, then continued to DCA, you would have likely recouped your losses. Eth is now nearly 500% up. However, three years of holding leads to serious loss aversion. That discomfort you feel when considering selling into btc/eth and being done with it, is the sunk cost fallacy.

    Fast and Feeless

    Why might this not be such a big deal?

    It's possible that transaction costs actually act as incentives for economic activity. The boom in DeFi this summer was driven by the fact that fees could be earned. Lending money to a liquidity pool was incentivised by the collection of fees. More broadly, transaction costs are what motivate mining of PoW coins. Fees secure a network. Staking coins for interest also locks up part of the supply reducing sell pressure.

    I've done a lot of reading around this over the last few months to try and answer it myself, and I'll be honest and admit that I cannot find a simple, easy to digest source to link here. However, speak to an economist and you'l find out that transaction costs act as lubrication to an economic system.

    What if, after all this time, feeless is a bug and not a feature?

    What if charging tiny fees – enough to encourage people to run nodes or whatever, but small enough to not hugely inconvenience them – was actually better than charging no fees? I genuinely suspect that if Nano was fast and nearly-feeless it would do better than it has.

    And if you think I might be wrong, you can always ask yourself, why did DeFi explode this summer? Even when the gas fees got totally out of control? What was the reason for that? Why do people care about DeFi so much? Answer that honestly, and you might see which coins are likely to blow up over the coming months and years.

    ​

    "Persistence and determination are incredibly important. But sometimes you need to analyze the situation and understand when you're wrong. You need to be able to cop to being wrong, learn to change, and continue to grow as a human being." ~ Sasha Grey

    ​

    What is the honest reason for holding Nano?

    Store of Value?

    On the Bitcoin front, there has been massive institutional investment from hedge funds and other companies looking to diversify their treasuries. Grayscale now has $16 Billion of BTC under management.

    One thing I find interesting about this development is that it effectively settles the "store of value" vs "digital cash" argument. Bitcoin is used more than ever and has greater value than ever, but not because it's being used as cash. This is NOT Satoshi's vision, but - putting emotions aside for a minute - I think that's neither a good nor bad thing. It's just a thing. It just shows that the market has developed in one particular direction with regards to one particular coin.

    Digital Cash?

    Nano is often described as fulfilling Satoshi's vision, as if this was the only thing of importance. I probably have a better understanding of the Whitepaper than most, have actually used bitcoin to buy things (in 2014 no less), and I still don't think this is the be-all, end-all of crypto. If this was so important, Bitcoin Cash would be more popular. It's a coin that I feel is unfairly derided, as it does what it set out to do. Still, not used all that much is it?

    If a token wants to be a medium of exchange, it needs to be relatively stable, hence the massive increase in stablecoins over the last few years. Nano bagholders might shout "but fees!" at this point, but what if stablecoins moved from the eth network to other networks and fees continued to come down? I've used Vai on BSC and it cost a couple of cents to move and was near-instant.

    Serious question - what do you think will win: stablecoins with very low fees, or Nano with zero fees? If stablecoins continue to develop, move onto other networks, and are adopted by exchanges, what will be the advantage of using Nano?

    Novelty?

    At this point, maybe you just like the technology. You think it's fun to use a token for things. That's cool, but why? That's what Doge is for ;) If you don't care about price at all, then why are you shilling it to newcomers who do care about the price?

    Use this time in history wisely

    Past performance does not guarantee future results, but if you were trying to make the best bets you could, why bet on a donkey?

    A Caveat

    I could totally be wrong. I held XRB in the distant past, and some Nano in the not-too-distant past. One possible route to price increase that I can see is if multiple exchanges adopted Nano and provided Nano pairs. If that happens, it would thrive.

    Edit - this has been an interesting experience. I dislike the tribalism of crypto and want everyone to do well, regardless of the coins they hold. I deliberately chose a provacative title because I wanted some engagement, even if I wouldn't normally use that kind of language. I got the engagement, but am slightly shocked by the vitriol, misinterpretation, and generally mean-spirited responses from the majority of commenters. Maybe I just made a bad argument. On re-read, that's definitely part of it. This was kinda off the cuff, and I definitely could have done a better job. But on the other hand, it also looks like a lot of people auto-downvoted and didn't engage at all except to write mean comments. I even agreed with some people (there's a lot about Nano that I like!) and even those perfectly polite, civil, responses got downvoted and criticized. Just a bit disappointed by the community tbh.

    submitted by /u/jnc23
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    VeChain Becomes The First 5-Star-Rated Blockchain Service Provider In The World, Certified By TÜV Saarland

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 03:56 PM PST

    Best Strategy to buy pieces of Bitcoin with a mid-range income

    Posted: 29 Dec 2020 02:19 AM PST

    Hello

    I wanna start collecting pieces of Bitcoins again after selling what I had for 3 years, Last time I bought a whole BTC at once

    I want to think about a strategy to buy it partially now, based on my monthly and daily income, I would like to see your experience if anyone did the same and was successful in that

    Appreciate

    submitted by /u/shalyar
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    Bitcoin price to grow 'ten times by end of 2022' as JP Morgan estimates value of $650,000

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 11:34 PM PST

    To the newcomers: AVOID THESE SCAMS!

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 05:50 PM PST

    Gonna cut to the chase... Feel free to contribute here if you have seen a scam I have not listed here that should be!

    Privacy preface: Don't post about bitcoin or crypto on your social media if it contains your personally identifiable information. Consider making "alt accounts" to post about crypto on twitter or reddit.

    1. No one will send you 2 bitcoin if you send them one first. Someone is pretending to be a celebrity on twitter (or YouTube / or another social media platform) or someone has hijacked that celebrity's account.
    2. I can't get on an exchange. I'll buy the altcoins being sold in this telegram group at a 10% price premium. The idea is first you trade 10 or 20 USD of bitcoin for an altcoin in question. Then you do a second, larger transaction, and the trader takes your altcoin and won't send you bitcoin. He steals your money.
    3. I have 0.3 bitcoin on _____ exchange. I need 0.4 BTC to withdraw from the exchange. Can you help me? Don't do it. Just don't do it. This requires you to trust someone you (most likely) never met face to face.
    4. Hey check out this new exchange! Zero fees and you get 0.1 BTC for signing up! Use new exchanges at your own risk, especially if you can't find reputable people promoting that exchange. A nice way to verify whether or not the exchange has traffic is to use similarweb.com
    5. If you are getting DMs from a stranger on the internet (reddit, telegram, discord, any platform) without prior conversation with them, just ignore them or take them with a heavy amount of skepticism.
    6. I want to set up an escrow bitcoin account with you on _____.com. Someone will make an account for you on an exchange website and provide you with a username and password. The exchange websites in question may not be scams, but this is where things get REALLY dangerous: eventually they will tell you to enter your personal information on the website. If they have that information, they could potentially simswap you. Don't do it. strangers on the internet won't spend months making money with you when they could steal thousands from your ignorance in just a few minutes.
    7. Celebrities / Crypto Celebrities DM'ing you about premium investments or how you won their giveaway. I would love to be held as a a VIP to the winklevoss twins, but that just isn't going to happen.
    8. Bad actor Telegram bots offering airdrops. You get invited to random Telegram channel for new amazing crypto coin. It's an automated thing, do XYZ tasks, get free crypto, automated responses from telegram chat bot - requests public address (fine), bad actor will request private key (NEVER give this out!!)
    9. Free Cloud Mining. At best an ad serve app on your phone that never actually generates you crypto income (but does for the app dev in ad revenue!), at worst clipboard spyware or something much nastier - especially avoid unsigned/non App Store/Jailbreak required apps. There are NO 'free' legit cloud mining operations I'm aware of personally on phone or desktop, and paid 'managed' cloud mining accounts are dubious at best and should be intensely researched and verified.
    10. You just won 0.XX BTC! We've deposited it in NO_NAME_EXCHANGE. Just go and pick it up! Then you'll be told by the so-called "exchange" - "You cannot withdraw until your account is verified. To prevent money laundering and funding of terrorism, please send some BTC to your account." You send the BTC and game over. It is long gone.

    submitted by /u/sgtslaughterTV
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    The fact that large exchanges like Coinbase can swiftly drop support for a coin scares the living shit out of me. (read desc before you downvote)

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 11:38 PM PST

    I've been following the XRP stuff (surprise! /s). I don't have much XRP (probably like < $50 that I bought at $0.20 in 2017), but the fact that the government can perform a surprise-audit and just deem an entire cryptocurrency invalid within days really scares me. It scares me because whatever the government says, the largest exchanges, being afraid of the govrenment, will comply swiftly. This is overall bad news for people who hold many altcoins. I think the people who held mostly BTC in 2017 and didn't care much for the altcoin booms were actually the really smart people. Altcoin are littered with scams (hey hey heyyy).

    Fuck XRP, but fuck the SEC even more. We won't know what they are going to do next. I feel really scared about crypto right now because I don't know what to expect in the coming months and years. I suspect this will drive a lot of people to simply hold BTC and forget most, if not all, of the altcoins. I think the only safe bet right now is BTC/ETH because if BTC or ETH fall, then the entire industry will fall. So everyone will be a loser in that case, and at least I'll feel better about my own losses. In 2017, we were afraid the SEC would start cracking down on major altcoins. They didn't. They are doing it now. XRP is the first to fall.

    I believe XRP will be the first of many coins that fall -- many coins involved arbitrarily large "founder allocations" and raised money in ICOs just as XRP did.

    This is the beginning. I think we should all be ready for bad news, for it would be irresponsible not to be. I will contonue to hodl BTC.

    submitted by /u/commander-obvious
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    OKCoin latest exchange to suspend XRP trading and deposits

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 02:15 PM PST

    This is the best Andreas Antonopoulos speech I have ever listened to, and most crypto people I now have never seen it before! Well worth listening to - I'd recommend this as the first source of information to share with your friends and family when they ask about bitcoin these holidays.

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 12:22 PM PST

    Cartesi Reserve Mining is now live on the Ethereum Mainnet

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 02:15 PM PST

    House approves $2000 stimulus checks. $40k Bitcoin incoming?

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 09:36 PM PST

    Tezos New Privacy Preserving Protocol Upgrade- Explained by Arthur Brietman

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 09:51 AM PST

    Bitcoin whales are buying up since Christmas. $647 million worth of Bitcoin transferred from small addresses to large addresses.

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 12:23 PM PST

    Fake News: Redditor makes $24,000 from Reddit Moons. Always remember DYOR

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 05:58 PM PST

    I just read an article, which was posted here a day or so ago: https://decrypt.co/52733/reddit-user-makes-over-24k-in-bitcoin-by-trolling

    Which states that a reddit user, was awarded 80,000 moons and that he swapped them for the equivalent of: 0.92 BTC.

    The ATH for xDai on honeyswap has only ever been 0.02705. That means at most the redditor could have made is: $2164.

    The post from the mods only came out introducing moons on 13th May 2020. I'm not sure if moons came out that day or later, so lets choose this day as a starting point: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/gj96lb/introducing_rcryptocurrency_moons/ as its safe to assume the announcement came before any sending of moons.

    Next lets look at BTC. If the Redditor made the maximum ATH at the time from the swap and did in fact get: $2164 which was 0.92BTC.

    Equation: Y = P% * X

    Y = money from swap (2164)

    p% is BTC bought (0.92) = 92%

    2164 is 92% of 2352.1739

    That means that bitcoin would have had to be: $2352 at the time of buying.

    According to the chart created by coindesk: https://imgur.com/gallery/6uxiaHA :

    Bitcoin was $8815 on that day and has not dipped below that since then.

    I put it to you, that this is in fact fake news.

    It's important to note, that whilst bullish to be good in the news, fake news hurts our community and we should endeavour to swat out the scum that post it. Websites that post crap articles without research get instantly blocked by me. You should start doing the same. They are clickbait and spammy.

    Stay safe and happy holidays!

    submitted by /u/pmayall
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    Reading too much into coinbase issues?

    Posted: 29 Dec 2020 02:52 AM PST

    I've just recently got into buying crypto after lurking around here for sometime, following the majority of the advice to go with a bit of BTC and ETH (and to avoid shitcoins...unless for a ton of other reasons which I think are based around hope of moon shot and/or interest in the project) and HODL no matter what.

    I've used coinbase and coinbase wallet to start (hardware wallet seems to be the place to go if you are holding a lot, right?) as it seemed the easiest to get going while I learn about alternatives (Binance and Python seem good ones, but still reading a more into this - any info would be appreciated!) but looking and the coinbase sub, just seems to be problem after problem, with either frozen accounts, lost funds, unable to buy or sell etc should I be concerned or is this user error? Is it just that all the negative comments and problems end up there because of their lack of customer service responses?

    Apologies if this is breaking any rules mods, happy to remove/move of so.

    Thanks to any who reply and the community for all the really helpful stuff posted here that has started me on this journey

    submitted by /u/FaNtaSticMrKK
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    What is the Primary Driver in This Round of Bitcoin's Surge?

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 11:29 PM PST

    Grap Finance Exploits Cover Protocol for $3 Million

    Posted: 29 Dec 2020 03:38 AM PST

    The real reason why we went parabolic since October..... hahahahahah

    Posted: 29 Dec 2020 02:59 AM PST

    US Dollar Projected to Hit Cyclical Bottom in 2025—What Does It Mean for Bitcoin?

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 09:33 PM PST

    Major darknet marketplace White House Market ends support for bitcoin payments

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 11:19 AM PST

    Interesting idea

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 08:44 PM PST

    Cover Protocol Is Exploring Launching a New Token Following Attack

    Posted: 28 Dec 2020 10:03 PM PST
    Read more
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