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    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, September 30, 2019

    September 30, 2019

    Bitcoin Daily Discussion, September 30, 2019

    Daily Discussion, September 30, 2019

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 12:00 AM PDT

    Please utilize this sticky thread for all general Bitcoin discussions! If you see posts on the front page or /r/Bitcoin/new which are better suited for this daily discussion thread, please help out by directing the OP to this thread instead. Thank you!

    If you don't get an answer to your question, you can try phrasing it differently or commenting again tomorrow.

    We have a couple chat rooms now!

    Please check the previous discussion thread for unanswered questions.

    submitted by /u/rBitcoinMod
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    bUt ThE fEeS aRe So HiGh...

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 01:13 PM PDT

    When your friends tell you that you're dumb / crazy for putting any money on bitcoin, tell them to give this man 2 minutes and 11 seconds of their time.

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 01:59 AM PDT

    I have ascended to a Hodler

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 06:33 PM PDT

    Let's preface this: I have been in crypto for about 2.5-3 years now, mostly in Bitcoin. I dabbled in alts for a quick stint, lost a good amount of money, and got out.

    Over the years, I have hit a couple different phases. When I first got in, I was checking the price around 3-4 times a day. As time has gone on, I find myself checking less and less.

    This has gotten to the point that I just don't really check the price at all. I remember opening Coinbase the other day to see the price drop. I just blew some air out of my nose, said "hmm", and bought the dip.

    What I'm trying to say here is that I have hit the phases of buying and selling, checking the prices hourly, but at the end of the day everyone should be it for the long run. Price could drop again and again, but it won't really matter in 20 years.

    TL;DR: HODL

    submitted by /u/drockaferd
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    Staying Humble With Bitcoin

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 12:08 AM PDT

    "Quite honestly, I don't think we should be doing smart contracts on Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't do smart contracts, and it doesn't do smart contracts because it does security." - Andreas Antonopoulos

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 12:34 PM PDT

    Taken from LTB #414 Live Q&A

    Stephanie Murphy: "What's everybody's view on Rootstock (RSK)?"

    Andreas M. Antonopoulos: I don't think Rootstock is putting smart contracts on Bitcoin. Rootstock is allowing you to use Bitcoin to pay for smart contracts on the Rootstock Drivechain, which you could theoretically do by shifting money into Ethereum. In fact, recently I saw someone who had built a gateway that allowed you to make a Lightning payment that terminated in an Ethereum contract. So there's many ways to bridge different blockchains together. Quite honestly, I don't think we should be doing smart contracts on Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't do smart contracts, and it doesn't do smart contracts because it does security. That's not a trade off I think is worth doing. It's much better to leave that to a chain that has a much more experimental culture and can take bigger risks.

    As to whether we can do smart contracts, that's not a binary question; it's a question of value. So can we do smart contracts that can keep $1,000,000 secure? Yes. $10,000,000? Maybe. $100,000,000? No, the DAO proved that. How about now? DAI is doing more, so maybe yes. So it's basically a moving front. As the the maturity of the smart contract ecosystem expands, we can do bigger and bigger stakes (no pun intended) within the smart contract ecosystem. Every now and then there's gonna be a fairly catastrophic failure that's gonna cause a regression in the amounts of money that's put in them. But essentially it's growing. We're proving this every day, and it's the same thing with Bitcoin. The way you measure security in a smart contract or you measure security in a cryptocurrency like Bitcoin is how secure is Bitcoin? X billion dollars. That's the stake that is sitting on it right now, unhacked so far.

    BONUS: Bitcoin's security model as block reward approaches 0.

    Stephanie Murphy: "Do you think Bitcoin will be able to shift from block rewards to transaction fees to maintain security as the block reward approaches zero?"

    Andreas M. Antonopoulos: "This is one of the fundamental misunderstandings and dynamics of mining for most people, which is the idea that something suddenly happens sometime at an undescribed future, either at the next halving or in 2141. The truth is on a daily basis, every single miner in the industry looks at six or seven different factors: the efficiency of their mining equipment, the price of electricity in their local fiat, the cost of their operation system, the current price of Bitcoin in fiat, the reward that's available as a block subsidy, the average amount of fees they can get, and the relative proportion of hashing power. They decide based on all of these factors. Do I leave this specific machine on at its current efficiency, or do I turn it off, or do I point it to another coin? That happens every single day. Every single day that decision continues, it's rebalancing all of these dynamic factors. So the shift between block subsidy and fees happened every single day since January 3rd 2009 and it continues to happen today.

    Sometimes, the capacity of the blockchain, the number of transactions that are in there, the value of the fees mean that it really attracts miners because there's a lot of fees to take. Other times, the fees decrease, the number of transactions decreases, so they're now more reliant on block subsidy and then it swings back and forth and back and forth. It's gonna oscillate in that way all the way to 2141.

    submitted by /u/lobt
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    "When will you guys learn?" ~February 2014

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 01:09 PM PDT

    So much shit is going on around the world however, Bitcoin is not moving much

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 12:11 AM PDT

    During the past years I always thought I could see some correlation between a terrible thing happening in the world, which might influence the market, and the price of Bitcoin. More specifically in most cases the Bitcoin price would rise while e.g. stock prices would fall.

    In recent times we had or still have conflicts concerning:
    - Hong Kong
    - Iran and Strait of Hormuz, influencing oil trade which has always been a major driver of the economy
    - We had our fair share of Trump activity which influenced Bitcoin prices, however the recent impeachment announcement didn't seem to have much of an impact
    - There are messages of the population of Venezuela and the Central Bank hoarding Bitcoin however, for a population of 38 million people I would have thought this would have had a bigger impact in the price and more specifically transaction volume, as Venezuela could actually be one of the first places where it was actually used as a currency and not for HODLING.
    - ECB started quantitative easing again while some (the Dutch and German) Central banks are fiercely against
    - Last week there where messages about the US and QE or quietly printing 75 billion

    Finally I think adoption rate after being around for more than a decade is (at least in the Netherlands) low. People do not know how to use it, are scared of using it, or don't see the importance of using it. One of the reasons contribution to a low adaption rate in the Netherlands I think is banks seeing some of the technological improvements of Bitcoin and implementing it. Of course banks do not and cannot implement all the good stuff from Bitcoin as it is simply not compatible with the banking system, they can however implement some nice features the fiat muggles care about most. Most predominantly fast transactions and have now also introduced it e.g. Tikkie (which is an app to transmit small transactions almost instantly).

    While I still believe in Bitcoin and Blockchain, after all these years, and all this shit happening in the wold, if the rest of the fiat muggles still do not understand Bitcoin when will be the moment they do?

    Considering low adoption rate and little to no price influence of recent events I start to lose trust in the growth of Bitcoin, in the growth of the Bitcoin price and finally in seeing Bitcoin as an investment.

    Edit: typo

    submitted by /u/weetgeen
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    The thing that blows my mind about bitcoin that we should know (but not necessarily everyone else yet)

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 12:35 AM PDT

    Bitcoin has dropped over 80% THREE times before this recent "crash". Parenthesis around the "crash" because is 80% really considered a crash anymore to Bitcoin?

    An 80% decrease in other assets would really strike panic in at least US domestic markets if not global markets. Historical crashes are: 1) The Great Depression of the 1930's hit a total of 86% percent down. 2) The 60's to the 80's saw around a 70% stock market crash. 3) The Dot Com Bubble of the 90's saw a 40% crash. 4) The Sub Prime Mortgage Loan Crisis of 2008 saw a 50% crash....

    Bitcoin has seen 80% "crashes". This is Bitcoin's fourth rodeo. I'm not sure what other stock (let alone, asset) can withstand 80% "crashes" and come back stronger. The first alternative asset I think of is the AMZN stock which fell 70%~ during the Dot-Com bubble. AMZN fell from $85~ to I roughly $20. Now each AMZN stock is worth roughly $1,725. Amazon did this once.

    Bitcoin has done this three times before. This is an anomaly of an asset.

    Pairing the A) economic circumstances and social normalization of the word "recession" in 2019, while the B) political environment is looking quite hectic. "Revolutions" are happening in Venezuela, Iran, Hong Kong, India/Bangladesh, multiple African countries... and do we dare forget that C) the federal reserve, not just the US Government, is facing troubling circumstances with BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa). Russia and China already bypassing the US Dollar taxes in trading with other countries like Iran.

    It is quite a blessing to be involved in a wonderful asset like Bitcoin as early as 2019. After tried and tested "crashes", the entirety of Bitcoin does not collapse like any other stock would. This is not a stock. This is the emergence of a new asset class. That keeps on going and going and going.

    submitted by /u/bjtbtc
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    Got my full node running

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 02:26 AM PDT

    Hi,

    I got my full node running. Can someone please explain me how can I validate my own transactions via command line or any other way using my full node. Thanks.

    submitted by /u/TLDR-Guy
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    Buyers Pact �� 3:30PM Central Time Fridays

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 03:19 PM PDT

    I would like to start a group purchase at $10 per participant at a set time every week regardless of market conditions. I know that it may seem silly at first but the $10 mark is something that most people can afford. It's not about any sort of market moving strategy it's more about a commitment to making Bitcoin a success. I think that we should view the $10 as doing our part to help Bitcoin continue to set a new higher low than every year before...I think it's possible that this group can grow to massive numbers and I do get excited when I think about 10,000,000 people buying $10 worth of Bitcoin at the same time each week. This would be bigger than Bakkt and bigger than institutions nothing against them but I have more faith in people and the power of their numbers especially the hodlers 👍 I'm open to criticism but please be thoughtful.

    submitted by /u/Bigman1979
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    Bitcoin trading at mall. Southcenter ,WA

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 03:05 AM PDT

    Espírito Santo Pet Shop that accepts bitcoin makes outdoor advertising

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 04:02 PM PDT

    Kim Dotcom: ‘Crypto is taking over, and there’s no stopping this train’ ...

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 03:20 AM PDT

    Where the price of bitcoin is likely to head next as well as when global recession may hit on Coinmonks:

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 01:54 AM PDT

    Where the price of bitcoin is likely to head next as well as when global recession may hit on Coinmonks:

    https://medium.com/coinmonks/the-infinite-headed-hydras-recession-near-bitcoin-blues-4af02aec9580

    submitted by /u/HanseCoin
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    Thought I would give this a go. I have seen it posted a couple of times on here. Any bits to look forward too?

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 01:57 PM PDT

    Former VP from VISA, Amex & JPMorgan defects from traditional payment industry to Bitcoin.

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 12:05 PM PDT

    Bitcoin’s chart is really just a bunch of little S curves linked together and moving in an upward trajectory

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 03:56 AM PDT

    All the other technical indicators are nice to think about too, but this one really simplifies it in my mind.

    submitted by /u/the420chronicler
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    An in-depth analysis of Bitcoin's throughput bottlenecks, potential solutions, and future prospects

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 04:24 PM PDT

    I've recently spent altogether too much time putting together an analysis of the limits on block size and transactions/second on the basis of various technical bottlenecks. The methodology I use is to choose specific operating goals and then calculate estimates of throughput and maximum block size for each of various different operating requirements for Bitcoin nodes and for the Bitcoin network as a whole. The smallest bottlenecks represents the actual throughput limit for the chosen goals, and therefore solving that bottleneck should be the highest priority.

    The goals I chose are supported by some research into available machine resources in the world, and to my knowledge this is the first paper that suggests any specific operating goals for Bitcoin. However, the goals I chose are very rough and very much up for debate. I strongly recommend that the Bitcoin community come to some consensus on what the goals should be and how they should evolve over time, because choosing these goals makes it possible to do unambiguous quantitative analysis that will make the blocksize debate much more clear cut and make coming to decisions about that debate much simpler. Specifically, it will make it clear whether people are disagreeing about the goals themselves or disagreeing about the solutions to improve how we achieve those goals.

    There are many simplifications I made in my estimations, and I fully expect to have made plenty of mistakes. I would appreciate it if people could review the paper and point out any mistakes, insufficiently supported logic, or missing information so those issues can be addressed and corrected. Any feedback would help (especially review of my math)!

    Here's the paper: https://github.com/fresheneesz/bitcoinThroughputAnalysis

    Oh, I should also mention that there's a spreadsheet you can download and use to play around with the goals yourself and look closer at how the numbers were calculated. Also, there was a discussion on r/BitcoinDiscussion a while back.

    tl;dr

    • Bitcoin's current most constraining bottleneck according to the goals I chose are storage of the blockchain and UTXO set, and memory use of storing the UTXO database. These two things almost definitely don't meet the chosen goals.
    • The highest priority improvement should probably be fraud proofs, since they drastically improve the network security in an environment where most users use SPV nodes.
    • The second-highest priority improvements should be Assume-UTXO done in a way where historical data can be ignored by most nodes (fraud proofs are required for this).
    • The most effective future improvement will probably be some kind of accumulator (like Utreexo), since that will eliminate the size of the UTXO set as a bottleneck entirely.
    • In 10 years, if all these existing ideas are implemented, we can probably safely get to 100 transactions per second on-chain.
    submitted by /u/fresheneesz
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    Venezuela WEEKLY UPDATE "living" here. 1 BTC is around 160,000,000 Bs (Bolivares). Three weeks ago it was 205,000,000 Bs. Monthly minimum wage is around 1.8 USD (it was 30 USD a year ago). 482 BTC were traded last week using LBTC (last week was 489) which is around 92,944,000,000 Bs.

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 07:02 AM PDT

    As you probably know I'm a Venezuelan living here. AMA even if it looks dumb, you can also check my post history.

    Government gave some money bonus (free bonus) around 10 USD. Public services like electricity, gasoline and tap water are owned by the government and are free, service is really bad with blackouts daily.

    Biggest bank note is 50,000 Bs. which is less than 2 USD and less than a montly minimum wage. You need to use debit and credit, bank transfer, cryptos and USD to pay anything.

    This after 5 zeroes were shaved from the currency less than a year ago and 3 zeroes more 12 years ago. So it would be 5,000,000,000,000 Bs.

    Central bank and the government itself has a big stash of BTC, mostly to avoid US sanctions and mostly mined by mining equipment stolen from people https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-26/venezuela-has-bitcoin-stash-and-doesn-t-know-what-to-do-with-it

    MONTHLY minimum wage IS 40.000 Bs. , which is LESS than 2 USD per MONTH. Official rate (Venezuelan Central Bank http://bcv.org.ve/ ) is 21.028 Bs. per each USD. So 40.000 / 21.028 is < 2 USD.

    Sources:

    https://coin.dance/volume/localbitcoins/VES/BTC

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-venezuela-cafe-con-leche-index/

    About the minimum wage

    https://www.venezuelanews.net/news/260700087/the-president-of-venezuela-raises-the-minimum-wage

    AMA!

    submitted by /u/WorkingLime
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    Monday Art - "Let's Fly Bitcoin" 38x46cm acrylic on canvas

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 11:47 PM PDT

    ����

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 04:28 AM PDT

    Bugs Discovered in Bitcoin Lightning Network Implementations, Fixed

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 12:37 PM PDT

    Preparing for winter in Okanogan, WA USA

    Posted: 29 Sep 2019 03:42 PM PDT

    better options than coinbase for buying bitcoin ?.

    Posted: 30 Sep 2019 04:30 AM PDT

    So I wanted to buy bitcoin during this last drop. And Coinbase decided to freeze my deposit until I provide them with more ID pictures and even a selfie holding up a piece of paper. They didn't send any notification that the deposit was frozen. I was only informed when I contacted them. They have blocked it for 6 days now even though I told them to return it 3 days ago. I feel like they are keeping my money hostage until I meet their demands. It really sucks as I want to buy bitcoin for the last 6 days, but they are stopping me from doing so, I can't even buy it somewhere else because they are holding my deposit against my wishes.

    I have already provided them with ID before and bought with no problem up until now. They pull this ridiculous surprise action and take away my ability to use my money. I don't intend to send them selfies. I'm looking to other/better options for buying bitcoin.

    So what are better more reliable options to buy bitcoin ?. that doesn't pull these kinds of blackmail.

    submitted by /u/OverallStandard
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